Optimistic sellers

[jasonu]

I'm with my boy Fresh Oats here. I think cafe racers are the tits.

No, people that ride those butchered piles of crap are tits.

[F5 Dave]

Well that's the thing. They don't seem to ride them, evident of the multitude we see on th that have just been finished and are up for sale. Probably off to buy a nice car as motorcycles seem to be a bit dreadful to ride.

That xv has a nice set of forks but quickly gets progressively worse as you move back. It would be shit to ride with that seat. The welds are dreadful and the wheels are different. Bet it runs like crap too.

[OddDuck]

Let me play a little devil's advocate here for a second.
But how good were the technical skills or discipline or patience or taste of the young guys in 60's Britain that popularized this style? (genuine question)
I'd argue some hideous suzuki GN that some 18 year old made into a 'cafe racer' in his dad's garage is more of an authentic cafe racer than an $18,000 2017 Triumph Thruxton which is blatantly capitalizing on the style.
I mean I'd obviously rather the triumph but I'm just saying. If the 'heritage' is some young guys messing around and modifying their otherwise stock bikes into something they think is cool, what's more authentic, some young kid doing just that or some major motorbike company using the style to push product?

Fair questions. First, yep, you're right, young guys having a hack isn't a new thing, and yep, even at the height of the '60's there'd have been some bad work.

I can't agree with the GN125 / 250 thing, though. It's not that simple.

First - let's say that someone has done a cafe racer conversion and they've done it well. They're happy with the bike, they like riding it. Are they going to flick it on Trademe or are they going to keep it?

Second - the usual Trademe story is that the guy was stuck for cash through the entire build. The donor bike was whatever he could buy after sorting the rent, groceries and bills, then the work was whatever could be done with whatever cash was left over. It's usually the bloke's first attempt, too... like anything in life worth doing, there'll be a period of try and fail while learning before it starts to go right.

A couple of the common mods - pod filters and opened mufflers - will affect engine tuning and possibly cause serious engine damage. It is not easy or cheap to re-tune carburettors, so lots of these guys simply don't bother. The bike still starts and runs so everything's OK, right? It sounds good, or at least they tell themselves that. Doesn't quite seem to accelerate like it used to...

The end result is a crap bike. Maybe a good bike had to die along the way. Then they try to ask top dollar for it all based on a cheeky sales pitch.

Lots of self delusion, lots of hope, big dreams and castles in the sky... lots of bullshit, too.

It's really unfortunate in the end... I actually do quite like cafe racers but this garbage at the bottom end is devaluing the entire movement.

If you're after authenticity, go to a few of the bike shows, see some of the custom work that rolls up - the stuff that is not for sale. Have a talk with the bike's owners as well, if you can.

[FlangMasterJ]

Why the hate for brown seats my guys?

[F5 Dave]

Mmm, Brown. That's why they sell so many Brown Cars or Bikes.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-notes-queries

[FlangMasterJ]

So they can be customized but not too customized? You're a wacky bunch.

[Autech]

So they can be customized but not too customized? You're a wacky bunch.

And you only just worked this out?

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[FlangMasterJ]

And you only just worked this out?

Nah figured that out years ago but it looks like it's spreading to the one's I thought were not on the 'tism spectrum.

[Voltaire]

the product they started with was more solid, and simpler, so made it easier, there would have also been quite a bit of ability in those days as people made shit, repaired shit whereas now it's a lot more of a throwaway society.
Additionally the bikes of the time required a bit of work to keep on the road, most people had to do their clutch regularly, etc so knew more than the basics to start with

My experience with 50's and 60's bikes tends to suggest that the chisel and hammer were the main special tools 'back in the day'
Going by the large tool sections at Supercheap working on vehicles is still pretty popular.

[AllanB]

Why the hate for brown seats my guys?

It appears to be a global thing. The hate come up on Pipeburn, BikeExif etc very frequently.

Unsure why but I suspect it is really a dislike of hipsters.

Done well the brown seat can look very good. And a bonus is that if you overcook a corner and shit yourself it does not show.

[FlangMasterJ]

Done well the brown seat can look very good.

Was it a GB400 a few pages back in like a sky blue? That looked great with a brown seat.

[jellywrestler]

Done well the brown seat can look very good. .

yeah, at midnight and no other time

[pritch]

But how good were the technical skills or discipline or patience or taste of the young guys in 60's Britain that popularized this style? (genuine question)

I'd say there were a lot more skilled young people around in the sixties than there are now. The western countries have all become "services" oriented whereas back in the sixties the various trades were the predominant source of employment. Literally thousands of young Poms would have worked in motorcycle factories and dealerships. The new motorcycle factories these days are being built in Thailand and India.

One local young guy I knew, just out of school, blew his car engine, the cars in those days were much less tolerant of abuse, so he cast himself a new piston. How many guys could do that today?
OK, not too many could have done it then either.

A tasteful factory "cafe racer" as per the Honda GB400, the Enfield (India), or the Triumph (Thailand), is vastly superior to the botch-ups on TradeMe which do not even look remotely like a cafe racer.

[Autech]

I'd say there were a lot more skilled young people around in the sixties than there are now. The western countries have all become "services" oriented whereas back in the sixties the various trades were the predominant source of employment. Literally thousands of young Poms would have worked in motorcycle factories and dealerships. The new motorcycle factories these days are being built in Thailand and India.

One local young guy I knew, just out of school, blew his car engine, the cars in those days were much less tolerant of abuse, so he cast himself a new piston. How many guys could do that today?
OK, not too many could have done it then either.

A tasteful factory "cafe racer" as per the Honda GB400, the Enfield (India), or the Triumph (Thailand), is vastly superior to the botch-ups on TradeMe which do not even look remotely like a cafe racer.

I could cast one, depending on the size I reckon a good 10 metres with my right arm.

Oh wait...


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[Banditbandit]

Let me play a little devil's advocate here for a second.
But how good were the technical skills or discipline or patience or taste of the young guys in 60's Britain that popularized this style? (genuine question)

That depends on what was done to the bike.

basic cafe racer was rear set footpegs (usually on existing frame mount points) , clip on bars, seat with a rear hump and a fly screen or even what is now called a Bikini fairing.

Then engine - cams, carbs (usually Amal monoblock to Amal concentric, or for the rich, Amal TTs - the less purist could go to Makuni carbs, which gave more speed but were not Brit manufactured), gearbox, sprockets. Two-into-one exhaust.


That took no actual skills other than the use of spanners and screwdrivers.

Next level is a mixed one - Norton featherbed frame (acknowledged as one of the best handling brit frames of the time) with Norton roadholder forks and the engine of your choice. Triton (Norton with Triumph engine) was the commonest. Or Norton/BSA. All with engine mods.

Norvin's were the most desirable - and also the most expensive (Norton frame Vincent engine).

All with engine modifications (cams, carbs, high com pistons, maybe strengthened con-rods, two-into-one exhausts)

You could also get tricky with the clutches to take the increase in power - stronger springs, larger clutches with more plates etc.

The only actual engineering type modification was the engine mounts - and many places sold them as after-market, as they did with other parts.

So a '60s cafe racer only required a it of know-how, a few spanners and screwdrivers. No-one chopped into the frames until choppers came around.