South Africa is going (further) down thew toilet

[Katman]

Well, for starters - you can't be rounded up and executed for insulting Jacinda Ardern or the Queen.

We don't have a secret police that tortures people for wrongthink.

Let's start there.

2/10.

Try harder.

[Viking01]

Not to mention, but those 35 Million were part of a Famine that just so happened to be in the middle of the biggest armed conflict the world has ever seen, so there is an argument to be made along the lines of "sacrifices had to be made" - and considering the alternative (Imperial Japan circa 1940 or Germany) - Again, Britain (for all her faults) was by far the lesser of 2 evils.

https://www.checkpointasia.net/winst...ne-of-1942-43/

[Katman]

.....so there is an argument to be made along the lines of "sacrifices had to be made".....

Ah yes, your infamous 'collateral damage' argument.

[Laava]

Ah... good old rant and rave... or as it should be called, "troll vs troll"

[pritch]

My statement is that the poorest of the poor in (for example) New Zealand lead a better existence than if they lived in North Korea or any other Communist country.

Obviously you haven't asked the poorest of the poor, they may like to take their chances. Vietnam is trying to attract retirees there, nice climate, pleasant lifestyle, and your dollar probably goes a long way. There are New Zealanders and Australians have made the move.

There are people in the USA (white people) who are little better off than they would be in Soweto. As LBJ put it, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

When I see yet another photo essay showing grinding poverty in West Virginia or wherever, naturally I feel sorry for the people involved. Then I remember that they keep voting for politicians who couldn't care less about them.

[oldrider]

Obviously you haven't asked the poorest of the poor, they may like to take their chances. Vietnam is trying to attract retirees there, nice climate, pleasant lifestyle, and your dollar probably goes a long way. There are New Zealanders and Australians have made the move.

There are people in the USA (white people) who are little better off than they would be in Soweto. As LBJ put it, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

When I see yet another photo essay showing grinding poverty in West Virginia or wherever, naturally I feel sorry for the people involved. Then I remember that they keep voting for politicians who couldn't care less about them.

And they keep on giving all that tax money to Israel.

[oldrider]

Eddie Izzards aside (Do you have a flag?) - How do you equate the political structure as being relevant to the overall death toll? Are you saying that a Dictatorship lessens to the social and moral cost somehow?

Not to mention, but those 35 Million were part of a Famine that just so happened to be in the middle of the biggest armed conflict the world has ever seen, so there is an argument to be made along the lines of "sacrifices had to be made" - and considering the alternative (Imperial Japan circa 1940 or Germany) - Again, Britain (for all her faults) was by far the lesser of 2 evils.

Really? -

[TheDemonLord]

Obviously you haven't asked the poorest of the poor, they may like to take their chances.

I've read their accounts, I've also read the accounts of people who have escaped North Korea.

Multiple sources describe dire situations in NK that simply don't exist in NZ, even from the poorest of the Poors accounts.

This is not to say that our Poor don't deserve help or compassion - but it is to say that in just about every other country in the world - they'd be far worse off.

2/10.

Try harder.

Well - how would you define it?

Ah yes, your infamous 'collateral damage' argument.

https://www.checkpointasia.net/winst...ne-of-1942-43/

I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's just, I'm saying it was a decision made in the middle of a War - and the alternative (Germany winning or Japan attaining victory in the pacific) would have objectively far worse.

[jasonu]

Obviously you haven't asked the poorest of the poor, they may like to take their chances. Vietnam is trying to attract retirees there, nice climate, pleasant lifestyle, and your dollar probably goes a long way. There are New Zealanders and Australians have made the move.

There are people in the USA (white people) who are little better off than they would be in Soweto. As LBJ put it, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

When I see yet another photo essay showing grinding poverty in West Virginia or wherever, naturally I feel sorry for the people involved. Then I remember that they keep voting for politicians who couldn't care less about them.

Have you even been to America? (and a week at Disneyland doesn't count)

[Katman]

Well - how would you define it?

I wouldn't have been so stupid as to make such a ridiculously sweeping statement in the first place.

[TheDemonLord]

I wouldn't have been so stupid as to make such a ridiculously sweeping statement in the first place.

And yet, both those starting statements are objectively true.

So on a level that you cannot refute, that 'ridiculously sweeping statement' - is in fact, true.

But I doubt you'll ever concede that.

[Katman]

So on a level that you cannot refute, that 'ridiculously sweeping statement' - is in fact, true.

No, it's just a ridiculously sweeping statement.

[TheDemonLord]

No, it's just a ridiculously sweeping statement.

That you cannot refute at a given level.

[pritch]

Have you even been to America? (and a week at Disneyland doesn't count)

On that basis no. Are you saying that the varous articles I've read portayed circumstances that don't exist? Trump voters who just get their "news" from Fox have so little idea of what's going on they might as well live on another planet. Actually Disneyland would be more realistic.

And yes, I have been to Disneyland and Universal Studios - and some gunshops.

[Katman]

That you cannot refute at a given level.

A ridiculously sweeping statement doesn't require refuting.

It is a refutation in itself.