Free speech.

[Graystone]

And who is the arbiter of what should and should not be curtailed? Because history shows that the type of person that wants that sort of job, is exactly the type of person that should NEVER have that type of job.

And what guarantee do you have that this standard you've setup won't one day be turned upon something you love?

To speak to the group you referenced - I've given my opinion, at great length, in detail and on multiple occasions on the AntiVaxx crowd - I hold them in particular contempt as theirs is the only conspiracy that has a real world effect (Children who have unnecessarily died)

And even in that scenario - it is still the lesser of the 2 evils compared to censoring of them.

Whoever wants to speak, that's kind of the 'free' bit about it. Do try and keep up...

[Katman]

Then stop bitching about venues not providing the settings for the discussions you wanted...

Wrong end of the stick yet again.

I'm bitching about us not being an open minded society.

[Graystone]

Yes - and internet sites are privately owned and often paid for. They are not public spaces, even if they are publicly accessible - but usually even then you have to sign up and accept the rules to participate ..

The Internet is not public domain.

Who owns this site? It is clearly paid for by advertising .. and the owners control what is said here .. just try to push the limits and see how quickly yo get an infarction ..



Exactly ...



Exactly ... You cannot force private owners to open their venue to whomever asks or demands ..

Even if you force venues to open up, you can't force people to listen .. not ever, no way, no how - it is possible for force people to go - but they will listen or not on their own choice.



I'm not sure I follow that ... I agree that venues should not be forced to provide a setting for open discussion - I am not sure what that has to do with an open-minded society ..

True, perhaps to hear is more what I meant. Many, many things are just not worth hearing, let alone listening to...

[Graystone]

Wrong end of the stick yet again.

I'm bitching about us not being an open minded society.

Righto, just as long as being open minded means agree with you eh!

[Katman]

Righto, just as long as being open minded means agree with you eh!

Not at all.

Open minded means being prepared to discuss something, with the possibility that you might learn something - rather than just responding with "shut the fuck up".

[Graystone]

Not at all.

Open minded means being prepared to discuss something, with the possibility that you might learn something - rather than just responding with "shut the fuck up".

And on, and on, and on though right? How many times do we have to discuss shit with close minded morons before we can discharge our duty to be open minded and just tell them to shut the fuck up?

[Katman]

....before we can discharge our duty to be open minded and just tell them to shut the fuck up?

Why would you want to 'discharge your duty to be open minded'?

[TheDemonLord]

Whoever wants to speak, that's kind of the 'free' bit about it. Do try and keep up...

And when the shouting of "Shut the fuck up" does not produce the curtailing influence that you want, what then?

Or what if something controversial is shouted down, that is actually true, what then?

There are some very slippery slopes that you are trying to navigate, as opposed to the simple absolute principle - Both parties are free to speak, so long as they don't infringe on each others rights. They can protest, debate, counterpoint, critique, ridicule etc. but not suppress.

[pritch]

I've given my opinion, at great length, in detail and on multiple occasions on the AntiVaxx crowd - I hold them in particular contempt as theirs is the only conspiracy that has a real world effect (Children who have unnecessarily died)

There is currently a measles outbreak in Europe which, if I recall correctly, has resulted in thirty seven deaths. And counting.

Criminal stupidity.

[pritch]

This clip is stated to be raw footage but it has been shortened at both ends. You will note how a Reuters reporter and a photographer with cameras becomes "six people with AK47s and RPGs". The helicopter crew went on to shoot up a van with kids in but that has been cut. This only became public courtesy of Chelsea Manning and Wikileaks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25EW...&frags=pl%2Cwn

[Graystone]

And when the shouting of "Shut the fuck up" does not produce the curtailing influence that you want, what then?

Or what if something controversial is shouted down, that is actually true, what then?

There are some very slippery slopes that you are trying to navigate, as opposed to the simple absolute principle - Both parties are free to speak, so long as they don't infringe on each others rights. They can protest, debate, counterpoint, critique, ridicule etc. but not suppress.

Nothing then, free speech isn't some magicall bullshit that will fix everything. your continued attempts to contrive examples only prove my point, your value judgements on what is said are utterly irrelevant to the principles of free speech. Free speech has nothing to do with saying the 'right' thing.

[Graystone]

Why would you want to 'discharge your duty to be open minded'?

Just on the principle that open mindedness is the way to learning the truth.

[carbonhed]

This clip is stated to be raw footage but it has been shortened at both ends. You will note how a Reuters reporter and a photographer with cameras becomes "six people with AK47s and RPGs". The helicopter crew went on to shoot up a van with kids in but that has been cut. This only became public courtesy of Chelsea Manning and Wikileaks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25EW...&frags=pl%2Cwn

Well there were a group of six or seven people and the guy in the hooped shirt certainly looked to be carrying an AK47... aaaand the guy who pokes his head around the corner and points a big telephoto lens down the street... mistaken for an RPG... shit happens.

Having kids in a van in no way precludes some other shit going down.

I guess that makes me unsympathetic.

[TheDemonLord]

Nothing then, free speech isn't some magicall bullshit that will fix everything. your continued attempts to contrive examples only prove my point, your value judgements on what is said are utterly irrelevant to the principles of free speech. Free speech has nothing to do with saying the 'right' thing.

Yet, you've advocated for the silencing of Speech that you consider 'wrong'.

And those examples are far from contrived, as a brief overview of history will attest.

[mashman]

Why would you want to 'discharge your duty to be open minded'?

bwaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. Nailed.