The 1080 debate

**frogfeaturesFZR** · 15th September 2018, 07:57

Originally Posted by FJRider

At best ... it's the most (cost) effective at the present time.

Seem to remember the Texas company, that makes 1080, has folded.
I’m sure DOC has stockpiles, but they don’t last forever.
Can’t find the link, sorry.
So I suspect an alternative will be trialed.

**F5 Dave** · 15th September 2018, 08:26

Being an ex Karori lad we saw what is now Zealandia is before and now after
https://www.visitzealandia.com

They have fully fenced off area and rejuvenated the area without pests.
We used to access the area over a fence behind the scout hall and go up to see the dams etc in the 80s.

Marked change without the pests. But this was s huge undertaking right next to a major city with an income of tourists for future decades.
Don't expect to be doing it in , well, anywhere rural.

**FJRider** · 15th September 2018, 13:28

Originally Posted by frogfeaturesFZR

Seem to remember the Texas company, that makes 1080, has folded.
I’m sure DOC has stockpiles, but they don’t last forever.
Can’t find the link, sorry.
So I suspect an alternative will be trialed.

The company producing the 1080 pellets in NZ is NOT the dept of conservation. They are just one of their customers. The manufacturer is an outfit called Orillion ... formally known by the name of Animal Control Products Ltd. In 1991 became a State Owned Enterprise. Now it's registered trade name is PESTOFF.

No mention of them going out of business anytime soon ...

The link ...

https://www.pestoff.co.nz/

Check out "Our Customers" ... no wonder successive Governments continue to use their products ... they own the company ...

Also ... In Austrailia

in 2016 PAPP (para-amino propiophenone) became available for use, which the RSPCA has endorsed as a more humane alternative to 1080 due in part to its ability to kill faster, as well as having an antidote, which 1080 does not.

Our Governments use/endorsement of this product might not be accepted for use in NZ (by our Government) when they OWN it's competition/alternative.

**frogfeaturesFZR** · 15th September 2018, 13:59

Originally Posted by FJRider

The company producing the 1080 pellets in NZ is NOT the dept of conservation. They are just one of their customers. The manufacturer is an outfit called Orillion ... formally known by the name of Animal Control Products Ltd. In 1991 became a State Owned Enterprise. Now it's registered trade name is PESTOFF.

No mention of them going out of business anytime soon ...

The link ...

https://www.pestoff.co.nz/

Check out "Our Customers" ... no wonder successive Governments continue to use their products ... they own the company ...

Also ... In Austrailia

Our Governments use/endorsement of this product might not be accepted for use in NZ (by our Government) when they OWN it's competition/alternative.

Quote from Stuff. ( yes I know, not the most reputable source )

The 1080 toxin is manufactured in Alabama, in the United States. There is only one manufacturer of 1080 baits in New Zealand, based in Wanganui, which converts the raw product shipped from Alabama.

A second company, based in Canterbury, has stated it intends to produce 1080 bait at a factory in Rolleston.

Wasn’t suggesting that DOC made it, merely that they are the largest end user.
Still can’t find the link about the US company closing down though.

**Katman** · 15th September 2018, 16:00

Originally Posted by FJRider

Check out "Our Customers" ... no wonder successive Governments continue to use their products ... they own the company ....

Yeah, move along folks - no conflict of interest to see here.

**F5 Dave** · 15th September 2018, 16:18

My step mother wanted to invent a spray that repelled pets ripping open rubbish bags.

"PussOff!" And "Doggone"

But "Pestoff" is better. I applaud thee.

Used to be the guvvermint used to own the power company, the phone company and the post office. Bloody communists!

**FJRider** · 15th September 2018, 18:10

Originally Posted by frogfeaturesFZR

The 1080 toxin is manufactured in Alabama, in the United States. There is only one manufacturer of 1080 baits in New Zealand, based in Wanganui, which converts the raw product shipped from Alabama.

A second company, based in Canterbury, has stated it intends to produce 1080 bait at a factory in Rolleston.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=11343620

See the supporting organisations listerd at the bottom of the page.
http://www.1080facts.co.nz/the-scien...080-works.html

Were the birds bludgeoned to death by 1080 protesters or just picked up off the side of the road after being hit by a motor vehicle ... ???
https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2018/09/1...far-this-time/

https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/tag/pest-...search-nz-ltd/

Originally Posted by frogfeaturesFZR

Wasn’t suggesting that DOC made it, merely that they are the largest end user.

NZ is ... but not necessarily just DOC.

Originally Posted by frogfeaturesFZR

Still can’t find the link about the US company closing down though.

https://uncensored.co.nz/2018/08/24/...1080-from-now/

**FJRider** · 15th September 2018, 18:16

Originally Posted by F5 Dave

My step mother wanted to invent a spray that repelled pets ripping open rubbish bags.

"PussOff!" And "Doggone"

But "Pestoff" is better. I applaud thee.

Used to be the guvvermint used to own the power company, the phone company and the post office. Bloody communists!

The best one is in 5.56 caliber ... set on "Auto" ...

(works well on rabbit control too)

**Kickaha** · 16th September 2018, 07:59

Originally Posted by husaberg

But i note it was you you suggested trapping, how much pain is felt by the 18 hours spent with their leg caught in a trap before it is beaten to death with a hammer steel rod.
.

There are a lot of auto reset traps used that kill instantly so they don't need checking as often

**Woodman** · 16th September 2018, 10:18

Originally Posted by Kickaha

There are a lot of auto reset traps used that kill instantly so they don't need checking as often

We cannot trap our way out of this, logistically impossible.

**nzspokes** · 16th September 2018, 10:57

Originally Posted by Woodman

We cannot trap our way out of this, logistically impossible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDy-5IQvuU

**husaberg** · 16th September 2018, 11:03

Originally Posted by Kickaha

There are a lot of auto reset traps used that kill instantly so they don't need checking as often

there are a few ,generally that use eccentricity or that use a .22 cal to drive a captive bolt.
Neither are a large scale option as they have to be carried into position. moved and removed plus the dead body lying under it is a bit of a deterrent to others.

**mada** · 16th September 2018, 15:40

Originally Posted by FJRider

The company producing the 1080 pellets in NZ is NOT the dept of conservation. They are just one of their customers. The manufacturer is an outfit called Orillion ... formally known by the name of Animal Control Products Ltd. In 1991 became a State Owned Enterprise. Now it's registered trade name is PESTOFF.

No mention of them going out of business anytime soon ...

The link ...

https://www.pestoff.co.nz/

Check out "Our Customers" ... no wonder successive Governments continue to use their products ... they own the company ...

Also ... In Austrailia

Our Governments use/endorsement of this product might not be accepted for use in NZ (by our Government) when they OWN it's competition/alternative.

Really?

" Initial indications that PAPP was far more toxic to mammals than birds was an attractive feature of its use in New Zealand where it was formulated to control stoats, weasels, and feral cats and registered for use in New Zealand in 2011.[9] PAPP is being further investigated in Australia for use on feral cats, red foxes and wild dogs.[10] In New Zealand PAPP kills stoats at low bait concentrations that are not lethal to far more tolerant exotic possums and rats. In New Zealand it is approved for use in paste form or in fresh minced meat, so will only provide effective stoat control as part of intensive ground control. The potential for environmental contamination appears to be low since it does not leave residues in the environment. At this stage the risk of non-target impacts (by-kill) is thought to be acceptably low using paste formulations, although more recent assessments have shown that some birds are more susceptible to PAPP than previously anticipated.[11]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%27-Aminopropiophenone

It doesn't look like it can be easily aerially dropped into rugged large swathes like 1080. Instead it requires field bait stations and is labour intensive.

"Trapping is labour intensive and prior to the registration of PAPP there were no poisons registered in New Zealand for stoat control.

Are there other target species for PAPP?
The registration of PAPP may be extended in the future to include ferrets. Research is underway testing the effectiveness of PAPP at controlling ferrets."

http://envirolink.govt.nz/assets/Env...P-brochure.pdf

"Does PAPP persist in the environment?
PAPP is water–soluble. This means that if any bait falls out of a bait station the PAPP will be easily leached into the soil by rain where it is broken down into non-toxic naturally occurring substances. OECD test results show it
degrades within a month. Consequently, PAPP does not accumulate in the environment, and as it is used in bait stations it is unlikely to enter waterways. PAPP appears to have similar biodegradability and solubility as cyanide
and 1080. "

Nek minute ban-1080 will be calling for ban-PAPP

**jellywrestler** · 16th September 2018, 17:21

so where's all the actions by the anti 1080 wankers when they could put their money where their mouth is to speak and do a test area their own way to prove once and for all that other methods are achievable?
Especially in places of high unemployment, it would be a win win to me.

**Katman** · 16th September 2018, 17:39

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

so where's all the actions by the anti 1080 wankers when they could put their money where their mouth is to speak and do a test area their own way to prove once and for all that other methods are achievable?
Especially in places of high unemployment, it would be a win win to me.

It sounds like something they'd be happy to prove.

Perhaps they haven't been given permission.