The 1080 debate

[Woodman]

Yes, it appears that everything comes back to cost.

Value would be a better word.

[Katman]

Value would be a better word.

Well I suppose that depends entirely on one's definition of 'value'.

[Woodman]

Well I suppose that depends entirely on one's definition of 'value'.

Fair enough, but I was meaning $$, bang for buck, and there is only a finite amount of bucks to go around in the society we live in at the moment and 1080 drops are working and are at this time the most cost effective method available.

I would love it if we could just ask the rats, stoats, possums, pigs and deer etc to leave but the blank stares received would be the same after explaining to a anti 1080 campaigner that the bush isn't just there for them to go hunting in.

[Katman]

Fair enough, but I was meaning $$, bang for buck, and there is only a finite amount of bucks to go around in the society we live in at the moment and 1080 drops are working and are at this time the most cost effective method available.

And I've already stated that I'd happily see us pay more for a more humane method.

There's never been any shortage of frivolous governmental spending in the past.

[Katman]

I would love it if we could just ask the rats, stoats, possums, pigs and deer etc to leave but the blank stares received would be the same after explaining to a anti 1080 campaigner that the bush isn't just there for them to go hunting in.

Lovely little nature bush walks are all well and good but I don't think the vast majority of New Zealand's bush is used for a quiet meander on a Sunday afternoon soaking up nature's sights and listening to birds singing.

[Paul in NZ]

Yes, it appears that everything comes back to cost.

Not really. As has been covered trapping, no matter how its done just isn't an option in some areas so there will always be a poison involved unless the gene solutions evolve. There isn't another option that works as well in NZ and please don't say that an advanced society should not use such a cruel method because the only other option is to just abandon the bush and walk away which is equally just as cruel. Remember you can walk into a supermarket and by worse poisons like Talon or even fly spray. We have an ant problem in Raumati South so we are all baiting the ants like crazy... Do they deserve a nice death? Fuck off - kill the little pricks...

Where access is possible for trapping there is a shit load of research going on regarding better methods of trapping in the post 1080 era. The traps are all 'on line' so it can be seen which ones have gone off plus there is a study on animal behaviour which is leading to better placement of traps. There has been a lot of learning from all of this BUT again there are huge areas of land that can really only be accessed from the air.

Cost is one thing but its value that matters. If we as a nation value our native birds we will need to actually do some shitty things to preserve them OR walk away and keep a few stuffed ones as a memento. At the end of the day maybe we should just let the pig hunters and their dogs fuckin have it and screw the birds. We would save a fortune... We could put rats and possums on our bank notes.

As a side note - my wife has a horrible condition and she's facing a fucking awful death that's arguably worse that 1080 as it will linger on for years while she just wishes she was dead and looses all dignity. Sure she will get drugs to ease the pain and hopefully clean sheets but is anyone remotely worried about how inhumane that is? Yes they will prop her up in bed and make her look good but do you think an advanced society cares more for a possum than her?? Nope its just a left over religious mind fuck they are too scared to break. Face it - Life is a cunt and it matters fuck all if you are a rat or a possum or a human... It just humans get a nurse to wipe their bum when its the end

[Woodman]

And I've already stated that I'd happily see us pay more for a more humane method.

There's never been any shortage of frivolous governmental spending in the past.

Problem is though, if the cost gets too high then some other faction will demand either a slice of that pie or more of the tax take for their agenda. It is and always has been a balancing act.

Lovely little nature bush walks are all well and good but I don't think the vast majority of New Zealand's bush is used for a quiet meander on a Sunday afternoon soaking up nature's sights and listening to birds singing.

Why does it have to be used for anything at all by humans? Personally i am happy just to know that the birds are there as they should be.

[Katman]

There has been a lot of learning from all of this BUT again there are huge areas of land that can really only be accessed from the air.

So why do they continue to use aerial spreading in areas that are perfectly accessible?

And particularly in areas that are adjacent to farming areas?

[mada]

So why do they continue to use aerial spreading in areas that are perfectly accessible?

And particularly in areas that are adjacent to farming areas?

Time.

It's faster to mobilise a copter and spray than logistics involved in organising dozens of labourers, traps, transport, OSH etc.

[Woodman]

So why do they continue to use aerial spreading in areas that are perfectly accessible?

And particularly in areas that are adjacent to farming areas?

If you are flying over there anyway, why not drop a load on there?

[Paul in NZ]

So why do they continue to use aerial spreading in areas that are perfectly accessible?

And particularly in areas that are adjacent to farming areas?

Because its the most effective - to trap you need a shit load of tracks and a shit load of traps and people... Its not just money its time and resources

[Katman]

Its not just money its time and resources

It all comes back to money Paul.

[Woodman]

It all comes back to money Paul.

Sadly Katman, that is the society we live in. It doesn't particularly work, but it is where we are at right now.

[jellywrestler]

So why do they continue to use aerial spreading in areas that are perfectly accessible?

And particularly in areas that are adjacent to farming areas?

you try and get some people out working, especially one that takes energy, the dole is to comfy simply

[Paul in NZ]

It all comes back to money Paul.

If you follow it far enough nearly everything does. Money or religion