COVID-19 Public Health Response Bill

[Ulsterkiwi]

Can't we?

Even using the lowest estimated numbers, the NZ Populace outmans and out-guns the NZ Police and NZDF by a comfortable 4-1 for Semi-autos and if you include all firearm types - it's more like 20-1.

Or we can go to the ballot box.

It worries me when people say things like this.
You would happily take on an LAV with its complement of trained soldiers and it’s chain gun with 20 blokes from the pub with their duck guns?
20 lads who go possum hunting are a match for a team of AOS officers?
Aside from that, I would suggest we would do a huge disservice to many serving police officers and defence force personnel to assume they would be complicit with some kind of tyrannical government clampdown.
There are cowboys and nut jobs everywhere, the police and defence are no exception. Nor are the general rabbit hunting population it would seem.


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[TheDemonLord]

It worries me when people say things like this.

Why? We are ruled by Consent - at any moment in time, we (the populace) can revoke that consent, the ultimate arbiter of that is force.

This is not to say I want it to happen, only that it is the ultimate end and both parties (the Government and the Populace) should always be cognizant of that fact.

You would happily take on an LAV with its complement of trained soldiers and it’s chain gun with 20 blokes from the pub with their duck guns?
20 lads who go possum hunting are a match for a team of AOS officers?
Aside from that, I would suggest we would do a huge disservice to many serving police officers and defence force personnel to assume they would be complicit with some kind of tyrannical government clampdown.
There are cowboys and nut jobs everywhere, the police and defence are no exception. Nor are the general rabbit hunting population it would seem.

Would I want to take on a LAV? Not particularly - but let's play a hypothetical game for a moment (because it's interesting) - There's 105 LAVs in NZ - so that's just over 2 for each major population centre (43 cities with more than 10,000 people) - sure, big threat, but they can't be everywhere at once - so the '20 blokes from the Pub and their Duck Guns' - simply have to be where the LAVs aren't, which Given NZ's landscape isn't particularly difficult to do. Now, in those 43 cities (using easy numbers and assuming an equal distribution and no overlap) its not 20 blokes from the Pub, it's more like 5,000 - so 2 LAVs, with 20 Soldiers inside of them, plus the AOS vs 5,000 people.

Then you look at your logistics and supply train - dispersed throughout NZ means that any spare parts, fuel, Ammunition etc. has to travel a reasonable distance by road.

'but what about using the Hercules and the Iroquis to move it via airfield and then heli-lift it into situ' - Aircraft engines are generally known to be rather sensitive to being shot at - and the Perimeters of most NZ Air Bases are such that a reasonably competent marksman could take pot-shots, from cover at the assets.

The fundamental problem IMO is that NZ doesn't have a Combat air-wing (so no Close Air Support, No Bombing), doesn't have Cruise Missile or guided missiles/drone capability, nor does it have MBTs -

TL;DR - the NZDF, as competent and as professional as they are, don't have anything with a big enough bang that would enable them to take on the entire country, or even just the entire contingent of Firearm owners.

[Ixion]

One word. IED. Improvised Explosive Device. Easily within the capabilities of a Kiwi Resistance, and easy take out a LAV. The whole might of the US military can't keep things down in Afghanistan, NZDF wouldn't have a show.

Sent a shiver down my spine when our dictatrix ( yes that is a word, google it ). gloated at the beginning of the lockdown that she had 120 troops ready to shoot down any Kiwis who disagreed with her. Only a small shiver though, because in that case it wouldn't be long before Kiwis started shootings back.

[pritch]

'but what about using the Hercules and the Iroquis to move it via airfield and then heli-lift it into situ'

You'll need a time machine as well. You'll need that to get the Iroquois.

[husaberg]

You'll need a time machine as well. You'll need that to get the Iroquois.

The C130 has a long history in AC form for coin crowd control

a hell of a lot more usefll than a Main battle tank
NZ has the ability to ask any of its friends for help if the right wing Pom imports get ideas above their station

[pete376403]

One word. IED. Improvised Explosive Device. Easily within the capabilities of a Kiwi Resistance, and easy take out a LAV. The whole might of the US military can't keep things down in Afghanistan, NZDF wouldn't have a show..

O f course there is a vast amount of ordnance available to Afghans with which to make these IEDs. What equivalents can be found readily available in New Zealand - several million match heads? BTW, havent seen you around here for a while. Keeping well?

[RDJ]

I would suggest we would do a huge disservice to many serving police officers to assume they would be complicit with some kind of tyrannical government clampdown.

Newsflash: they've already done that 2 years in a row.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Newsflash: they've already done that 2 years in a row.

We are living under a tyrannical government clampdown supported by the NZDF and the Police? Glad you told me, I hadn't noticed. Silly me.

Why? We are ruled by Consent - at any moment in time, we (the populace) can revoke that consent, the ultimate arbiter of that is force.

This is not to say I want it to happen, only that it is the ultimate end and both parties (the Government and the Populace) should always be cognizant of that fact.



Would I want to take on a LAV? Not particularly - but let's play a hypothetical game for a moment (because it's interesting) - There's 105 LAVs in NZ - so that's just over 2 for each major population centre (43 cities with more than 10,000 people) - sure, big threat, but they can't be everywhere at once - so the '20 blokes from the Pub and their Duck Guns' - simply have to be where the LAVs aren't, which Given NZ's landscape isn't particularly difficult to do. Now, in those 43 cities (using easy numbers and assuming an equal distribution and no overlap) its not 20 blokes from the Pub, it's more like 5,000 - so 2 LAVs, with 20 Soldiers inside of them, plus the AOS vs 5,000 people.

Then you look at your logistics and supply train - dispersed throughout NZ means that any spare parts, fuel, Ammunition etc. has to travel a reasonable distance by road.

'but what about using the Hercules and the Iroquis to move it via airfield and then heli-lift it into situ' - Aircraft engines are generally known to be rather sensitive to being shot at - and the Perimeters of most NZ Air Bases are such that a reasonably competent marksman could take pot-shots, from cover at the assets.

The fundamental problem IMO is that NZ doesn't have a Combat air-wing (so no Close Air Support, No Bombing), doesn't have Cruise Missile or guided missiles/drone capability, nor does it have MBTs -

TL;DR - the NZDF, as competent and as professional as they are, don't have anything with a big enough bang that would enable them to take on the entire country, or even just the entire contingent of Firearm owners.

well, so long as you have thought it through then its alright then.

One word. IED. Improvised Explosive Device. Easily within the capabilities of a Kiwi Resistance, and easy take out a LAV. The whole might of the US military can't keep things down in Afghanistan, NZDF wouldn't have a show.

Sent a shiver down my spine when our dictatrix ( yes that is a word, google it ). gloated at the beginning of the lockdown that she had 120 troops ready to shoot down any Kiwis who disagreed with her. Only a small shiver though, because in that case it wouldn't be long before Kiwis started shootings back.

As above, clearly you have put some thought into it all and are way ahead with your planning, excellent.

I did Google as you directed me to. Who knew! Here was me thinking it was the whole electoral system that a plebiscite supported put her there. All the clever people who pointed out she was only in power because Winston kept her there and she had to keep him happy must have been wrong eh. She doesn't depend on him to keep her in power, she is a dictator (feminine form of course) with absolute ability to do what she wants when she wants with absolutely no checks and balances to challenge her. The jackbooted forces of the state are ready to trample over us at a moments notice to guarantee her every whim. Right, where do I sign up for my duck gun and IED?

[RDJ]

Ulsterkiwi - so you noticed not the repeated threats from senior police and Nash against firearms owners, as the confiscation proceeded, while holding all law abiding owners responsible for the Tarrant butchery (tho' only government officers had let him into NZ and licensed him without proper vetting).

Nor did you see the news of 12 armed police raiding a family man's home at dinner time (while seemingly unable to control gangs). Guess you also missed police officers chasing people off beaches and parks, while facilitating racist roadblocks.

And the policing of the first ?9 ?10 days of lockdown rules was done with the police knowing it was ultra vires.

Guess your attention was elsewhere.

[husaberg]

Ulsterkiwi - so you noticed not the repeated threats from senior police and Nash against firearms owners, as the confiscation proceeded, while holding all law abiding owners responsible for the Tarrant butchery (tho' only government officers had let him into NZ and licensed him without proper vetting).

Nor did you see the news of 12 armed police raiding a family man's home at dinner time (while seemingly unable to control gangs). Guess you also missed police officers chasing people off beaches and parks, while facilitating racist roadblocks.

And the policing of the first ?9 ?10 days of lockdown rules was done with the police knowing it was ultra vires.

Guess your attention was elsewhere.

If those gun owners are so law abiding, how come people keep going on how the laws a failure as so of those so called law abiding gun licence holders haven't proved to be law abiding and obeyed the law and handed in their ilegal firearms.
i guess for gun owner law abiding is rather subjective.
In case you never noticed the law changes were and are supported by the majority of Kiwis and had 99% support by the political parties........ you dont get more democratic than that.

[R650R]

Some interesting points raised above ... however the favourite tools of communist takeovers are starvation and a knock on the door in the middle of the night.
We’ve already had our “Krystalnicght” (night of broken glass) moment in NZ history when the police were sent to raid Polynesian “overstayers”....
So the same thing in modern times will be to abduct under the cover of darkness potential leaders and trouble makers for “Covid” violations and be taken to a “health” camp.
The other tool is to use lockdowns to cripple supply chains and industry so there is little food available or you can’t afford to buy or travel to get it. They’ve just had a mini practice run at this...

Watch Holodor, Harvest of Despair on YouTube to see how the bolsheviks easily murdered millions with the above tools by exporting their grain instead of feeding their own.

The good thing is the first lockdown has shown who are the stasi that can’t be trusted in your own local street. The ones that disobeyed are the ones you can safely trade food and tools with once we go full East German.....

[Katman]

In case you never noticed the law changes were and are supported by the majority of Kiwis.....

According to one Colmar Brunton poll conducted less than a month after the shooting.

[TheDemonLord]

The C130 has a long history in AC form for coin crowd control
a hell of a lot more usefll than a Main battle tank
NZ has the ability to ask any of its friends for help if the right wing Pom imports get ideas above their station

Yes, I do love the AC-130, however comparing the 2 is like comparing your mates Holden Commodore with a V8 Supercar - they may look the same, but they are very much different.

[TheDemonLord]

You'll need a time machine as well. You'll need that to get the Iroquois.

Oops! Fair comment - although the over-arching point of 'Helicopter engines don't like being shot at' is still valid.

[husaberg]

According to one Colmar Brunton poll conducted less than a month after the shooting.

Did you miss the MP's from "ALL POLITICAL PARTIES that had voting rights to represent the people (other than one dickheaded no hope sycophant from the one mp ACT party) voting for the initial gun controls into law?
you cant have missed it as you edited out of the post you replied to
If there was widespread support against the gun laws why is it there is no polls saying it was not supported then ?
On one hand, i have a poll conducted with scientific methods by a professional organisation on the other hand you have nothing........
Where is the evidence of widespread support, the protests, the petitions the call for a referendum. the political party with widespread support getting behind this movement.
i will give you a hint.
They had no support past some minority firearm owners and some of their spouses. Plus it seems an internet troll conspiracy theorist from Taupo.
come back when you have some evidence of something other than you inability to use rational thought processes.

i am picking you also chose to ignore the UMR poll.
A UMR survey of New Zealanders found 70 per cent supported strengthening the gun laws, 16 per cent opposed and 14 per cent were neutral or unsure...........