Judith Collins getting the arse.

[TheDemonLord]

I can't see you TDL except where people quote you.

But I'm not hearing "No", to "Sore at both ends."

Your choice, and we don't kink shame here.

Then you should either ignore more, or you should read what I said - cause I'm quite definitive about the whole bodily integrity thing.

[TheDemonLord]

LOL I love these antivax nutjobs. My particular favourite is the "but muh freedumbs". No one is forcing these knobends to do anything. Dont want a vaccine? Cool, no one is loading you into a coal train, taking you to, I dunno, Botany Downs and working you to death. If you don't wanna vaccine thats your choice.

No one in this argument is Anti-Vaxx. As I've stated many times.

I'm very much pro-Natural Rights, Anti-Discrimination.

But in the grown up world choices have consequences. Those consequences include not being able to go places or join the grownups as they socialise and get on with life. At it's essence it is that simple.

And that's duress. Which, if you are the Lawyer you claim to be, you should know a thing or two about. If I hold a knife to your throat and tell you to sign a contract and tell you "In the grown up would choices have Consequences, you can choose not to sign...."

Is that right?

Of course not.

Just like it's not right to try and fine people thousands of dollars for making a choice about their own bodies.

The other thing that I won't get into is their "arguments" (which arent arguments at all) about the basis for and the efficacy of the vaccine. But all these fucking retards should be doing is looking around and asking themselves a question - which is "OK, so if it was so bad, and 90% of the population (roughly) have had it, has the population reduced by 90% in the last year? No? Huh, OK, maybe it isnt so bad after all.

Again, not an Argument I've ever advanced. The only Argument I've pointed to is that it doesn't stop Transmission, therefore the claim by the Government that if everyone is Vaccinated, we'll all be safe from Herd Immunity is false.

Oh, and the visual disconnect of these angry fuckwits carrying (of all things) fucking Trump flags and United Tribes flags and "yer a communist AND hitler" (who was not a communist) and being egged on by the criminal genius with the lovely eyebrows the EFTpostle Brain Tamaki (Praywave TM). I just hope none of those cunts breed. Sadly it seems too late.

Oh No! People who like Freedom are rallying around a figure who promoted individual Freedom! The Horror.

Also, Hitler was a Marxist initially and all the original Fascists (on whom Hitler drew on) were also Marxists. Hitler references Marx quite a lot...

When I rule you (and I will) there will be licences for procreation, and none of these people will be granted them.

And I would expect nothing less from someone who seems opposed to the idea that other people can choose what they do with their bodies.

[TheDemonLord]

It's not what any of us consider, it's what Hiler and his henchmen considered. You could consider that millions of the other people murdered were gypsies or Slavs who were definitely selected for their ethnicity.

Yes and No, Even FJR acknowledges that there were people who were killed for their ideological belief (which was my overarching point) - and the determination of being Jewish didn't involve a DNA test, but was either self-declared (in the case of identity cards) or based on the ownership of Jewish paraphernalia.

[pritch]

Had lunch with a motorcyclist of my acquaintance this week. Was rather surprised to find he's an anti vaxxer. He's gone down the rabbit hole, an avid reader of the anti vax web sites. He lost his job this week.

A local group he and I rode with now has several anti vaxxers in it apparently. They can no longer ride to their favourite pub. If the other members can forego their alcoholic drinks they can head to the nearby cafe instead. Otherwise I guess the anti vaxxers will have to organise picnics.

I find myself shouting at the TV when some tragic or other is bemoaning the imminent loss of their job or house. "Get the fucking jab"!

The latest in the USA is magic dirt sourced from an ancient peat bog. If you mix it with your bath water it will draw the vaccine out of your system. If you eat it, drink it, feed it to your kids, or wash the dog in it, all apparently recommended uses, all will be protected against COVID. So at about US$100 apiece for a little plastic bag of dirt you can protect yourself from the vaccine and the disease. Just like magic.

The ancient peat bog though borders a modern landfill. One person more intelligent than the rest sent his bag away for analysis. The magic dirt contains dangerous levels of lead and arsenic.

[husaberg]

The latest in the USA is magic dirt sourced from an ancient peat bog. If you mix it with your bath water i will draw the vaccine out of your system, if you eat it, drink it, feed it to your kids, or wash the dog in it, all apparently recommended uses, all will be protected against COVID. So at about US$100 apiece for a little plastic bag of dirt you can protect yourself from the vaccine and the disease. Just like magic.

The ancient peat bog though borders a modern landfill. One person more intelligent than the rest sent his bag away for analysis. The magic dirt contains dangerous levels of lead and arsenic.

until you said it had a effective amount of active ingredient i was thinking "homeopathy"

[pritch]

Yes and No, Even FJR acknowledges that there were people who were killed for their ideological belief (which was my overarching point) - and the determination of being Jewish didn't involve a DNA test, but was either self-declared (in the case of identity cards) or based on the ownership of Jewish paraphernalia.

There were cripples and intellectually handicapped people consigned to the camps too. If POWs pissed their own camp management off enough, they too could be sent to the camps. The big part of the twelve million though were Jews, Gypsies and Slavs.

[Laava]

I went on a bike trip this weekend with an antivaxxer (courtesy of Profit Tamaki) who had the spiel drummed into him.
He is actually a nice guy and I like him and hope things will change for him but one thing that became obvious to me and seems typical anyway is this, and I have another mate who supports this,
if you are considering the facts, or the facts as put forward by our govt c/o boffins etc, concerning covid statistics there is the following conundrum;
1,the official death by covid vaccine rate, currently at 1 afaik? My mate thinks this is much higher, higher than the 46 the lady at ITM told me. He didn't have actual figures or a source, but assured me I could find it out if I researched it.
2, the official death by covid, currently at 44. My other mate thinks this figure is much higher than actual, the people who died might have been only recently infected, or recently recovered or in a household with infection or death caused by underlying condition.
So, OK, I get that people want to dispute the figures but this means my mates believe that more people have been killed directly by the vaccine than by the virus itself?
Honestly don't think they have thought this through.

[FJRider]

I'm very much pro-Natural Rights, Anti-Discrimination.

Good to hear ... But if you continue to post stuff that you attribute to me as a quote of a post of mine (as you have in this post) ... which is NOT a post of mine ... then you are a bigger and more useless fuckwit than I thought.

[FJRider]

... however the current declaration of Human Rights has a number of things that conceptually I disagree with.

That comes as no surprise ...

A Natural right does not require anyone to do anything, whereas a number of Human Rights do. All the Government needs to do is uphold my Natural Rights - but they aren't.

Among these fundamental natural rights, Locke said, are "life, liberty, and property." YOU have a life (of sorts) ... and your liberty (and everybody else's) was fought for (more than once) by people you never met. And even the un-vaxed can buy/own property. I don't get the perceived issue you have.

So, you're using the threat of Government force (in the form of a $15,000 fine) to compel people to discriminate against those who choose not to be Vaccinated.

I must have got it wrong then. I assumed you meant the UN-vaccinated were the one's getting discriminated against. THEY have to be vaccinated too remember. But ... if those business owners want to continue in business ... how closely they follow the rules is (I guess) THEIR business.

I happen to hold that those freedoms and activities are part of those natural rights.

Freedom isn't free. It comes at a cost. Often paid for in blood. The freedoms and activities are there still for you to enjoy.

No, we'll just keep discriminating against them until they bend the knee.

So we ARE discriminating against the un-vaxed. Who is NOT getting discriminated against ... ???

To me ... it seems like it's the vaccinated public that have all the freedom.

Good news though ... that includes me.

There are a few good Cafe's in Dunedin I may visit tomorrow ... because I can.

They only care if you are unvaccinated, which is discriminatory.

They do so care about me. I'm working and paying tax. And I have the freedom to go where I like on my days off.

Life is good.

[TheDemonLord]

Good to hear ... But if you continue to post stuff that you attribute to me as a quote of a post of mine (as you have in this post) ... which is NOT a post of mine ... then you are a bigger and more useless fuckwit than I thought.

Oops!

That was some overzealous use of Copy and Paste - I've now corrected.

My apologies, was a mistake.

[TheDemonLord]

That comes as no surprise ...

Well, the reason why might surprise you.

Consider the right to Education, unlike the right to free speech, someone has to provide said Education. Which means if it is declared a right, it must be provided, which brings in an element of Compulsion.

Among these fundamental natural rights, Locke said, are "life, liberty, and property." YOU have a life (of sorts) ... and your liberty (and everybody else's) was fought for (more than once) by people you never met. And even the un-vaxed can buy/own property. I don't get the perceived issue you have.

It's the middle one. Liberty. The right to go without let or hindrance freely.

It was wrong when there were signs that said 'No Blacks allowed', it's was wrong when there were signs that said 'No Jews allowed' and it's also wrong when we have signs that say 'No Unvaccinated allowed'

I must have got it wrong then. I assumed you meant the UN-vaccinated were the one's getting discriminated against. THEY have to be vaccinated too remember. But ... if those business owners want to continue in business ... how closely they follow the rules is (I guess) THEIR business.

Under the threat of a Fine, the Business owners are discriminating against the Unvaccinated.

Freedom isn't free. It comes at a cost. Often paid for in blood. The freedoms and activities are there still for you to enjoy.

I entirely agree with the first part, which was why when I opposed Lockdowns and the other tyrannical measures, I said I was happy to pay the potential cost of freedom (including Death).

However, if all businesses discriminate against a particular group because of the threat of Government fiat, then it's not really free, is it.

So we ARE discriminating against the un-vaxed. Who is NOT getting discriminated against ... ???

To me ... it seems like it's the vaccinated public that have all the freedom.

Good news though ... that includes me.

There are a few good Cafe's in Dunedin I may visit tomorrow ... because I can.

Remember, I'm vaccinated too - but I cannot stand for Discrimination and an interference with someone's bodily autonomy. Just because I might be on the approved list this time the Government wants to single out a group, doesn't mean I won't be next time.

Their rights are my rights and if I fail to uphold the rights of those I disagree with, then I have no leg to stand on when my rights are likewise not upheld.

I hold to the same ideal for everyone.

They do so care about me. I'm working and paying tax. And I have the freedom to go where I like on my days off.

Life is good.

Do you have that freedom? If you'd asked me 2 years ago whether or not in a Western Democracy a group in society would be singled out and denied access to certain shops because of their religious/political belief - even me, as much as I can't stand the Ardern Dictatorship, wouldn't have believed it.

[FJRider]

Well, the reason why might surprise you.

This may surprise you ... but I don't care why.

Consider the right to Education, unlike the right to free speech, someone has to provide said Education. Which means if it is declared a right, it must be provided, which brings in an element of Compulsion.

And it's supposed to be free as well. Your point is ... ??

The phrase ... You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink ... comes to mind. The Education services are there and freely [sic] available. It's there ... for those that WANT it.

... It's the middle one. Liberty. The right to go without let or hindrance freely.

The last few days ... my wife and I were out and about seeing where we could (or couldn't) go. Public buildings, Cafe's, businesses, and not once were we asked for our "Covid Pass". That right seems to be still there for me still.

It was wrong when there were signs that said 'No Blacks allowed', it's was wrong when there were signs that said 'No Jews allowed' and it's also wrong when we have signs that say 'No Unvaccinated allowed'

The signs said (in a few places) that a Covid pass must be produced on request. Or that we must have a Covid Pass. But nobody requested it. Put up a sign saying "Wet Paint" an watch the result. Everybody will stick their finger on it to check. The importance and relevance of signs are overrated.

Under the threat of a Fine, the Business owners are discriminating against the Unvaccinated.

You mean the Business owners are being asked to police the system. In actual reality (around here) they're not.

I...I said I was happy to pay the potential cost of freedom (including Death).

You STILL haven't paid that cost ... we're still waiting for your death. Will you be quick about it .. ??

However, if all businesses discriminate against a particular group because of the threat of Government fiat, then it's not really free, is it.

The reality is ... ALL businesses are not. Go and check that out yourself if you don't believe me

Remember, I'm vaccinated too - but I cannot stand for Discrimination and an interference with someone's bodily autonomy. Just because I might be on the approved list this time the Government wants to single out a group, doesn't mean I won't be next time.

I'm vaxed too. And I promise I wont interfere with your bodily autonomy as well. Even if you are on the approved list.

Their rights are my rights and if I fail to uphold the rights of those I disagree with, then I have no leg to stand on when my rights are likewise not upheld.

I hold to the same ideal for everyone.

I very much doubt that you do. The laws of this country are there to ensure the rights and freedoms of all citizens in NZ are upheld. But I would bet that you pick which laws you will or wont adhere to at any (chosen by you) time. So your "I hold to ... " is your usual bullshit.

Do you have that freedom?

There is nowhere I cannot go now ... that that I was able to go prior to the Pandemic. So my answer is yes.

[pritch]

It was wrong when there were signs that said 'No Blacks allowed', it's was wrong when there were signs that said 'No Jews allowed' and it's also wrong when we have signs that say 'No Unvaccinated allowed'

That's confused thinking. The blacks could not make themselves unblack. Nor could Jews make themselves unJewish. The unvaccinated can easily arrange to be vaccinated. Their problems are of their own creation. Actions have consequences. They are quite happy to endanger everybody else with whom they come in contact, they merit zero sympathy or concern.

I'm unaware of any religion that prohibits vaccination unless it's Jehova's Witnesses. Tamaki and others of that ilk are not a religion, they're a grift.

[pritch]

Very impressive photograph of the new leader of the opposition.

[pete376403]

That's confused thinking. The blacks could not make themselves unblack. Nor could Jews make themselves unJewish. The unvaccinated can easily arrange to be vaccinated. Their problems are of their own creation. Actions have consequences. They are quite happy to endanger everybody else with whom they come in contact, they merit zero sympathy or concern.

I'm unaware of any religion that prohibits vaccination unless it's Jehova's Witnesses. Tamaki and others of that ilk are not a religion, they're a grift.

Nor could merely being in the proximity of jews or blacks infect you wth a life threatening virus.