The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[FJRider]

That's why I like adding extra clarity to where there is any grey area.

Less interpretation, more analysis

.........................

[R650R]

Reality ... the topic we are discussing is Covid deaths. Deaths in a Hospital. With people called Doctors ... to sign the forms regarding cause of death.

They WILL know Date and probable cause of death. With the "Underlying" medical conditions of some ... the Doctors involved may not have cause to believe that Covid played a significant part in the death.



I do not think Covid (related) deaths are either unexplained or special circumstances ... well not anymore.

A death unconfirmed as the result of covid ... is not a big deal. Especially if other serious medical conditions are involved.


What peaks the Coroners interest ... is a suspicious death.

The trouble is the medical establishment has a vested interest in the death numbers via the way health services are funded although we are not quite as bad as American model.
Very few people will resort to having their loved ones cut up for autopsy when the whole tragedy is already enough to deal with.
What’s of note though is ALL media outlets are now using term “died with covid”...

[pritch]

That's why I like adding extra clarity to where there is any grey area.

Less interpretation, more analysis

You have a record of seeing "anomalies" where none exist. Your analysis is highly suspect.

The excess deaths figure would be a lot more reliable than anything provided by the Governor of Florida for example.

[FJRider]

The trouble is the medical establishment has a vested interest in the death numbers via the way health services are funded although we are not quite as bad as American model.
Very few people will resort to having their loved ones cut up for autopsy when the whole tragedy is already enough to deal with.
What’s of note though is ALL media outlets are now using term “died with covid”...

But ... "The Medical Establishment" isn't the one's face to face (literally) with the families of those who have died (Whatever the official cause of death was). And those ones facing off with the families ... have little to do with ... nor want little to do with ... the affairs of the funding side of Hospitals.

With my own family deaths in the past ... the Doctors were usually pretty quick to state that cause of death was almost certainly known ... or at least ... under law (for that particular case of death) there was no requirement for an autopsy.

Sometimes they did one in the interests of medical students learning process ... or for some unusual/uncommon conditions. Unless the family objected.

Died with covid means less chance of getting sued by a family ... if they do not believe covid actually caused the death.

[TheDemonLord]

You have a record of seeing "anomalies" where none exist. Your analysis is highly suspect.

There's plenty of Anomalies. Whether they conclusively prove something is a different question.

The excess deaths figure would be a lot more reliable than anything provided by the Governor of Florida for example.

Would it though?

That's an awfully bold, considering that a State Governor would have access to the exact number as determined by the State Coroners....

Not to mention that Excess is a very coarse metric.

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/healt...are-historical

Of the 24 deaths reported on Wednesday, eight died on Tuesday, the Ministry of Health said. Sixteen died in the past three weeks, but have just now been publicly reported.

Local public health authorities notified these deaths to the ministry in the past 24 hours, as part of the changes to the reporting of deaths announced last week.

Among the 24 deaths reported on Wednesday – the average age of which was 79 – eight died at aged residential care facilities, the ministry said.

One was aged in their 40s, one in their 50s, four in their 60s, three in their 70s, eight in their 80s and six in their 90s. Eleven were women and twelve were men. Demographic information for one person was not available.

[husaberg]

You said previously that they were trying to boost the numbers and that was when our national death toll was about sixty which was patently absurd. Obviously this new system makes the numbers higher than when you thought they were being boosted. You were due zero kudos then and zero now, you have nothing to gloat about.

[pritch]

There's plenty of Anomalies. Whether they conclusively prove something is a different question.



Would it though?

That's an awfully bold, considering that a State Governor would have access to the exact number as determined by the State Coroners....

Not to mention that Excess is a very coarse metric.

There is evidence that DeSantis has been falsifying the figures all along. He didn't like the official figures so he sacked the person responsible for keeping the records. She kept publishing the figures from home, so her house was raided by gun waving poice and her computers seized.

It's believed the virus got into old folks homes in Florida as it did elsewhere, but no informaton was forthcoming.

Florida reported 263,450 deaths of all ages for the year 2021. Expected deaths were 219,908. That is an increase of 43,542 deaths (+19.8%).

You may believe that excess deaths is a coarse metric, but it will likely be the one that history uses. That's the one the scientists use and politicians can't fuck with it.

[TheDemonLord]

There is evidence that DeSantis has been falsifying the figures all along. He didn't like the official figures so he sacked the person responsible for keeping the records.
She kept publishing the figures from home, so her house was raided by gun waving poice and her computers seized.

Okay, taking that on face value - posting Government data when you are no longer a government employee is a big no-no.

It's believed the virus got into old folks homes in Florida as it did elsewhere, but no informaton was forthcoming.

Florida reported 263,450 deaths of all ages for the year 2021. Expected deaths were 219,908. That is an increase of 43,542 deaths (+19.8%).

You may believe that excess deaths is a coarse metric, but it will likely be the one that history uses. That's the one the scientists use and politicians can't fuck with it.

To quote JBP:

'Doing a Univariate analysis on a multivariate problem is almost pointless'

Now, to be sure, some of those are likely due to Covid directly or complications from Covid, some may even be tangentially due to Covid - but to ascribe them all to Covid is just bad stats.

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/healt...ts--bloomfield

One minute it’s STAY THE F&$@ at home .... and The ground outside your house is LAVA...
And ohhhh a new deadlier more contagious version is here and ohh this one is even more contagious.....

Bbbbuuuuuttttttt it’s apparently “ perfectly safe” to dine out in restaurants....

It seems like the govt is hurting from all the lost revenue from many people to petrified to leave their voluntary bubbles after two years of a daily broadcast engendering a permenant pschychosis of fear.

You can now do lots of things to get life back to normal he says....

But it’s not normal, nothing can be done with spontaneity of a free society.
Carry and put a mask on.
You have to scan at door, maybe present your papers.
Don’t walk to close to anybody.
Stifle any random cough or sniffle lest you be reported to health dept....
It’s not natural or normal and many people like myself can’t be bothered with it all.
Then there’s thectrue believers who are petrified of the virus....

And as for all the people working from home.... Big business LOVES you labour more than the trucking lobby allegedly loves national. No longer do they have to pay for expensive commercial office space, heating, carpets etc.... Anyhow all those people will never be coming back for overpriced city lattes and muffins.... half of that plus associated business smashed and never to recover....

Who’d have thought Labour Making Big Corporate Profits Great Again

[FJRider]

... 1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.

438,000 cases so far. 135 Dead.


Yup ... nothing to panic about ...

[mashman]

438,000 cases so far. 135 Dead.


Yup ... nothing to panic about ...

So about 0.03% of cases die given those numbers.

Since the Pfizer document release, it turns out that Death accounted for 1.3% of the vaccines side-effects.

Just sayin'...

[FJRider]

So about 0.03% of cases die given those numbers.

Since the Pfizer document release, it turns out that Death accounted for 1.3% of the vaccines side-effects.

Just sayin'...

Remember ... those are only the NZ figures. And the deaths were only the known confirmed cases.


If your numbers are right ... the families of that 0.03% have nothing to worry about ... right .. ??


When the borders to the cities and the country were opened ... the increase in case numbers rose.


Just a coincidence ... right .. ??

[FJRider]

One minute it’s STAY THE F&$@ at home .... and The ground outside your house is LAVA...
And ohhhh a new deadlier more contagious version is here and ohh this one is even more contagious.....

Bbbbuuuuuttttttt it’s apparently “ perfectly safe” to dine out in restaurants....

For the time being ... just consider it the NEW normal.

It used to be normal to leave your house ... with nobody there ... for a few days or more. No worries.

Times change ... get over it.

It seems like the govt is hurting from all the lost revenue from many people to petrified to leave their voluntary bubbles after two years of a daily broadcast engendering a permenant pschychosis of fear.

Most of those staying at home by choice were on a Benefit. And they haven't got any money anyway.

They couldn't go far in the early stages of the Pandemic anyway. Everything was closed. The prices the places that are open now ... you need more money to pay the inflated prices they all now charge.

You can now do lots of things to get life back to normal he says....

But it’s not normal, nothing can be done with spontaneity of a free society.
Carry and put a mask on.
You have to scan at door, maybe present your papers.
Don’t walk to close to anybody.
Stifle any random cough or sniffle lest you be reported to health dept....
It’s not natural or normal and many people like myself can’t be bothered with it all.
Then there’s thectrue believers who are petrified of the virus....

As above ... the new normal. Your health may depend on it.

And as for all the people working from home.... Big business LOVES you labour more than the trucking lobby allegedly loves national. No longer do they have to pay for expensive commercial office space, heating, carpets etc.... Anyhow all those people will never be coming back for overpriced city lattes and muffins.... half of that plus associated business smashed and never to recover....

Businesses have to adapt to changing times ... if they want to stay in business. That hasn't ever changed.

And more changes are coming ... you can bet on it.

Who’d have thought Labour Making Big Corporate Profits Great Again

If they want to stay in power ...

And when they get back into power after the election ...

[mashman]

If your numbers are right ... the families of that 0.03% have nothing to worry about ... right .. ??

Really .. ??... Pfizers numbers ... Not in the slightest ... Some people are going to die, they always do.

Are you happy to explain to the families of the 1.3% that your fear was more important than the science?