The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[TheDemonLord]

If we hadn't had passports and mandates the vax rate would very likely be lower, like most other countries.

Lies.

https://www.google.com/search?client...ates+over+time

The Ahren Pass was announced on the 17th of November. We were already well on our way to 80% of total population vaccinated, I believe we hit 90% of elligible people vaccinated in December.

Outright Lies.

I dont think arguments about personal liberty are that compelling in comparison.

Would you be willing work for free, as a slave, to benefit society? Afterall, Arguments about personal liberty aren't that compelling in comparison to society benefit....

[Ocean1]

Would you be willing work for free, as a slave, to benefit society?

Every productive member of NZ does exactly that for the first 5 months of every year, personal liberty be fucked.

[TheDemonLord]

So where should the power be?

With the biggest? Or the richest?

Or should we all rely on humans to do the right thing for everyone in balance?

Under 200 words please.

If only we'd addressed this problem about 200 years ago with the concept of Natural rights and the limitation of those rights.

This is essentially the Totalitarian, Collectivist argument. "We can't achieve Utopia, therefore we have to tyrannize you".

Yeah, No thanks.

Power lies where it always does, with the Individual. That individual then has a social contract with a governing entity to protect everyone's natural rights. That's why voting is both universal and at the individual level.

(And that was in 78 words)

[pritch]

Given how she's been an absolutely terrible Prime Minister, despite all the Media Fawning, despite inheriting a country that is geographically perfect for resisting a pandemic -

Britain was also geographically perect for resisting a pandemic. Their lack of leadership resulted in mass deaths and much more drastic restrictions on liberty.
Get over it. Give Ardern the credit she deserves.

[TheDemonLord]

Britain was also geographically perect for resisting a pandemic.

No.

And here's why:

1: nearly 20 times higher population density (281 per square KM vs 17)
2: The Channel Tunnel (non air link with Europe)
3: Major international travel Hub
4: Close to multiple major population centres
5: Large mass transit systems (The London Underground, trains in general)
6: Close to other population centres for people to travel to the UK via improvised means (Migrant boats)
7: Lack of Sunlight (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94417-9)

Oh and in case you missed it....

BRITAIN UNDERTOOK THE SAME LOCKDOWN POLICIES THAT WE DID.

It was not Government Policy, but geography.

[TheDemonLord]

Give Ardern the credit she deserves.

For being a Socialist tyrant who is hates personal liberty?

Yeah - I give her plenty of credit for that.

Everything else is media spin.

[pritch]

To placate the idiot fringe who said they didn't want an mRNA vaccine, the government bought Astra Zeneca. Turns out the idiots wouldn't take that either. Now we have to throw out nearly a million bucks worth of vaccines.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...ped-on-april-2

[sugilite:Me]

A totally illiberal, fascist stick.

And I mean that in every sense of the word.

None the less, a very effective one.
The pollies suddenly ran out of time with delta banging the door down and fuck all ICU beds actually available - well more the staff to run them. Those Pollies led by Jacinda had squandered so much time whilst basking in the adulation's and running victory laps before the race had finished. They should of been running vigorous vaccination programs. As usual we paid the price for poor pollie performance.

[Ocean1]

They should of been running vigorous vaccination programs.

Well they did, albeit a bit late.
What they should have done and made no effort towards at all is constructing and staffing covid wards. Bit fucking late when 25% of your effective front line health staff are missing in action.

[FJRider]

Power lies where it always does, with the Individual. That individual then has a social contract with a governing entity to protect everyone's natural rights. That's why voting is both universal and at the individual level.

There was an individual standing in front of me today (puffing away on his cigarette) ... telling me how he won't take a vaccine ... "Because I don''t know what's in it"

I asked him if he knew what was in that smoke he was inhaling. Yep he says ... Just smoke.




I guess being stupid is a natural right for some too.



Who knew.

[F5 Dave]

They should have gone back 20+ years and started funding hospitals properly to be able to cope with natural disaster or pandemics. But User pays blah blah.

I do like the optimistic view that vaccines were available for small island countries when they were struggling with supply for in the rest of the world including the countries the vaccine were made. But we are all armchair experts.

[FJRider]

Arguments about personal liberty aren't that compelling in comparison to society benefit....

So ... the complaints of a few ... don't override the health choices of the majority .. ??

[TheDemonLord]

So ... the complaints of a few ... don't override the health choices of the majority .. ??

There is no 'health choices of the Majority', there is only the health choice of the Individual.

That's a collectivist argument.

And it's no different from every *ist claim of 'Group X spreads Disease, so we must discriminate against them'

[TheDemonLord]

None the less, a very effective one.

How?

As per my response to F5Dave, well before the introduction of the vaccine Pass, we were on our way to 90% immunity.

The pollies suddenly ran out of time with delta banging the door down and fuck all ICU beds actually available - well more the staff to run them. Those Pollies led by Jacinda had squandered so much time whilst basking in the adulation's and running victory laps before the race had finished. They should of been running vigorous vaccination programs. As usual we paid the price for poor pollie performance.

I mean, the roll out initially was a little sluggish, but once it got going - even I, the most arden-t critic, gave them a C-.

[TheDemonLord]

I guess being stupid is a natural right for some too.

One of the most important ones, actually.

Because what is Stupid today might be visionary tomorrow...