Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[pritch]

"Broke and suddenly started paying cash for Golf Courses. Which in any normal world is impossible"

Yes, but Trump and any other hyper-rich individual doesn't live in the normal world, do they? Him having minimal liquid assets because all his wealth is tied up in investments isn't the aberration that you are trying to make it out to be.

But let's take everything at your word - it still does not prove the claim that you stated.

Again for the ones at the back. I didn't say it proved it, I said you could draw you own conclusions.

You have claimed that Trump is a successful businessman. Could you please give me an instance of a successful Trump business. He has a looong list of business failures. His golf courses are all bleeding millions, he has put his newest hotel up for sale 'cause it too is bleeding cash, his other buildings have large areas unleaded. Lets not forget that this genius had multiple casino bakruptcies.

Your turn.

[TheDemonLord]

Again for the ones at the back. I didn't say it proved it, I said you could draw you own conclusions.

Okay let's be charitable.

The conclusions that can be drawn, even allowing for wild speculation, do not come anywhere close to the conclusions you are trying to draw.

You have claimed that Trump is a successful businessman. Could you please give me an instance of a successful Trump business. He has a looong list of business failures. His golf courses are all bleeding millions, he has put his newest hotel up for sale 'cause it too is bleeding cash, his other buildings have large areas unleaded. Lets not forget that this genius had multiple casino bakruptcies.

Your turn.

He's been a prominent public figure in the Business and Entertainment world for as long as I can remember, he lives the Billionaire lifestyle and despite ups and downs (Venture Capitalist, anyone) he has been able to maintain it during this time.

That he's been able to do it all this time means it's more than pure Luck.

But seeing as you asked for a successful Trump business:

The Apprentice.

Worldwide phenomenon (You're Fired!) and before you go 'oh but Trump didn't own it' (I don't know if he does, but I presume it's owned by the networks) - he was what made it what it was.

And another: Wollman Rink.

[onearmedbandit]

Again for the ones at the back. I didn't say it proved it, I said you could draw you own conclusions.

No you didn't, but you did state this.

Eric Trump is on record saying that the Trump Organisation could get all of the money it needed from Russia. There is one obvious explanation for this, the Trump Organisation is a Russian money laundering operation. The Russians own Trump.

Which is not based on something said on record, rather by what someone claims was said. So your 'obvious explanation' is based off something that there is no proof of. I may come across like a dog with a bone on this, but you have a habit of making statements that on occasion are revealed to be incorrect but when the facts are brought to your attention you ignore this. I see similar behaviour from the media and (from them) I detest the tactic.

[sugilite:Me]

But seeing as you asked for a successful Trump business:

The Apprentice.

And another: Wollman Rink.

that is a seriously underwhelming list

Well for starters it's a fact that everyone can agree on:

Didn't happen under Trump.

OK, sure it did not happen under trump. Keep the party hats firmly boxed as here is why. All your writings in this post simply confirm Trump was a Putin stooge. Why would Putin invade when trump had America tearing itself apart. Never disturb an enemy when they are doing themselves in. Had Putin invaded it would of taken away from Trumps internal hit job. Destroying the enemy from within is easier than smashing them up front as Putin is finding with the Ukraine.
I speculate Putin probably advised Trump not to withdraw from Afghanistan and let biden botch it up instead, genius! Let the dems predictably destroy themselves, then put the stooge back in to complete the civil war activation. Once the states is out the way, it is Russia vs China for the win.

Now, I've put forward my speculation as to why it didn't happen, including Trump being an unpredictable when it comes to Military intervention - who seems to prefer small, but high profile and precision strikes, followed by the offer of a deal.

I dunno, that small high profile strike on the iranian that hurt trumps feelings with the mean tweets caused him to lose at least 1 vote to biden
And what deal was offered to whom after he had that mean iranian general knocked off?

Add in the mix what happened in Afghanistan and Putin is emboldened.

This is as good a place of any to bring up the fact you side stepped the video showing trump capitulating to putin over his own intelligence agencies on the most public of stages. Shall we file that under indefensible then? Probably best not to mention the word emboldened with trumps tripe being there for all to see huh.

It's the difference between going into a fight with someone and knowing you'll most likely get a bit of a blood nose vs not knowing if you are going to win or they are going to pull out a knife and shank you.

As per the above, the conclusion any eyepatchless person can make after watching that video is that trump took putins shank eagerly down his throat.

[sugilite:Me]

I mean if you want Crazy Dems - AOC and Ilhan Omar are more than enough to satisfy that requirement. As I said though, I don't frequent those sites either.

They are kinda old news, I want fresh meat, what you got?

MJT is in many ways newtonian 'Equal and opposite re-action' to Wokeism. It's just that despite all the things I disagree with her on, at least she respects my property and individual rights.

I hate to break it to you, but the likes of her respecting your rights only extends to the end of your mutual aligned interests, after that your views are dog meat.

[TheDemonLord]

that is a seriously underwhelming list

I mean, there's more - but on what basis is a worldwide recognised TV Show underwhelming?

OK, sure it did not happen under trump. Keep the party hats firmly boxed as here is why. All your writings in this post simply confirm Trump was a Putin stooge.

Right, so you pay someone off, but wait till they have no authority to do your dastardly deeds? It's a new one - but I'll hear your argument.

Why would Putin invade when trump had America tearing itself apart. Never disturb an enemy when they are doing themselves in. Had Putin invaded it would of taken away from Trumps internal hit job. Destroying the enemy from within is easier than smashing them up front as Putin is finding with the Ukraine.
I speculate Putin probably advised Trump not to withdraw from Afghanistan and let biden botch it up instead, genius! Let the dems predictably destroy themselves, then put the stooge back in to complete the civil war activation. Once the states is out the way, it is Russia vs China for the win.

Trump had America tearing itself apart? All Trump? Not a hyper-partisan media spinning a conspiracy theory for years? Not an irrational hatred of the Man because he dared to not be Woke? Not the constant indoctrination of Grievance Studies in Universities?

It was all Trump? and all at the behest of Putin?

You do make a good point that an external war could galvanize the public (like Bush after September 11th or Thatcher and the Falklands) - however, it doesn't fit with Trump's voter base - they don't want to be wasting American lives in foreign wars - so despite it being well made, it does not fit the other data we have.

I dunno, that small high profile strike on the iranian that hurt trumps feelings with the mean tweets caused him to lose at least 1 vote to biden
And what deal was offered to whom after he had that mean iranian general knocked off?

Ah yes, the 'White Supremecist' who was so upset at the killing of a non-white person...

Now as for Deal - I don't know specifics and all I have is conjecture - but the lack of US Combat Deaths in multiple theatres is a pretty good bit of evidence to infer that he told them 'Fuck around and find out' and then afterwards said 'He fucked around, he found out - anyone else want to try? No? Good"

This is as good a place of any to bring up the fact you side stepped the video showing trump capitulating to putin over his own intelligence agencies on the most public of stages. Shall we file that under indefensible then? Probably best not to mention the word emboldened with trumps tripe being there for all to see huh.

Words vs Actions

But I didn't side step it - I pointed out what the Russian view of the West is (even if I disagree with it) and so bearing that view in mind, it stands to reason that if the 'West' is supporting Russia - then they will see them as less of a threat.

As per the above, the conclusion any eyepatchless person can make after watching that video is that trump took putins shank eagerly down his throat.

I mean - you could have better made case by comparing Trump to Chamberlain and Putin to .... (Censured by Godwin) - however in the context of one of the reasons the Russians gave for their actions in the Ukraine AND the long history of Buffer states in European geopolitics - it's not something you can dismiss out of hand.

They are kinda old news, I want fresh meat, what you got?

I mean Lori Lightfoot has graced us with this pearler:

"To my friends in the LGBTQ+ community – the Supreme Court is coming for us next. This moment has to be a call to arms,"

"We will not surrender our rights without a fight—a fight to victory!"

And you'll note - there's no addendum to do so peacefully and patriotically....

I hate to break it to you, but the likes of her respecting your rights only extends to the end of your mutual aligned interests, after that your views are dog meat.

Which is absolutely fine by me - she can think my Views are Dog Meat, so long as she respects my rights.

[TheDemonLord]

So this is specifically for Sugillite - Since you raised MJT - here's a clip from Douglas Murray, you'll want to skip to 1:28:33 (although the rest of it is a great listen IMO)



This is where a Right Wing commentator (one who I enjoy their work) talks specifically about MJT and as Pritch calls it 'RWNJ Conspiracies'

Depending on your views on certain issues, you may give more or less credence to certain parts - but I want to focus on the point that he makes:

"The rise of Right Wing Conspiracies and distrust in institutions isn't without reason".

He also directly calls MJT an Idiot - and has some poignant critique. Now, in other other dalliances often you'll challenge me on a Right Wing source being critical of the Right Wing and despite me having heard critiques of the Right Wing from Right Wing sources, it's often tricky (as most of it is in Podcast form) to provide an example - but here's one for future reference.

I'll admit I'm a bit more on the contrarian internet side that he mentions - it still is an interesting series of points.

[sugilite:Me]

I mean, there's more - but on what basis is a worldwide recognised TV Show underwhelming?

Very telling that it is not actually a business that was run by Trump lol
For the record, I never seeked to watch the apprentice, but if it happened to be on and I had time, I quite liked it. Though even then I noticed he had a propensity to cut his nose off despite his face, qualities that did not serve him well as president.

Trump had America tearing itself apart? All Trump? Not a hyper-partisan media spinning a conspiracy theory for years? Not an irrational hatred of the Man because he dared to not be Woke? Not the constant indoctrination of Grievance Studies in Universities?

It was all Trump? and all at the behest of Putin?

I did not say all Trump. Lots Trump, not all Trump.
No one knows bar Trump and close confidants how much influence the Russians had, but when no US banks would lend him money and Trumps son is spouting his father was grabbing bunches of russian money, it is not good for that reason alone. I don't give credence to pee tapes and the like, but just being beholden to russians on money alone is not desirable for a US President to have.

Ah yes, the 'White Supremecist' who was so upset at the killing of a non-white person...

Maybe write to him and ask why?

Now as for Deal - I don't know specifics and all I have is conjecture - but the lack of US Combat Deaths in multiple theatres is a pretty good bit of evidence to infer that he told them 'Fuck around and find out' and then afterwards said 'He fucked around, he found out - anyone else want to try? No? Good"

You give way, way to much weight to those actions having that effect, truly.

Words vs Actions

But I didn't side step it - I pointed out what the Russian view of the West is (even if I disagree with it) and so bearing that view in mind, it stands to reason that if the 'West' is supporting Russia - then they will see them as less of a threat.

I mean - you could have better made case by comparing Trump to Chamberlain and Putin to .... (Censured by Godwin) - however in the context of one of the reasons the Russians gave for their actions in the Ukraine AND the long history of Buffer states in European geopolitics - it's not something you can dismiss out of hand.

I think only you could relate what you wrote to somehow being relevant why Trump capitulated to Putin on the World stage

I mean Lori Lightfoot has graced us with this pearler:

You found one! Though her life story could be interesting as to how she became like she is.

And you'll note - there's no addendum to do so peacefully and patriotically....

Proven to be ineffective on Jan 6th, maybe if Trump had peppered his looooooong speech with more than one instance of the word?

Which is absolutely fine by me - she can think my Views are Dog Meat, so long as she respects my rights.

She absolutely would not. (imo)

[sugilite:Me]

So this is specifically for Sugillite - Since you raised MJT - here's a clip from Douglas Murray, you'll want to skip to 1:28:33 (although the rest of it is a great listen IMO)

OK, I skipped to 1:28:33 and I can see where he is coming from, I think there is more to it, but what he says rings true.
Then I went from the start of the video, and listened right through to 1:28 again.
I like him, I barely disagree with anything he says. I like his style, sure he is somewhat intellectually pompous, however that does not make anything he says less true.

I particularly found the BLM part and talking around the racial issues to be very good - on an intellectual level he is absolutely correct. No race, color etc is better or worse than another. And yes, whites are very racially profiled and attacked now. Somethings the other ethnicity's are saying would be deemed incredibly racist if a white person was to say it - I had noticed.
As mentioned on an intellectual level it is 100% correct. The problem is that most people process racial issues at the emotional level.
Case in point: A black person is seeing progress in equalities, despite the bad service the scam BLM movement has provided them. They see the progress, but there is much further to go (I have personally witnessed in the USA) thus they are still shitty and angry about being discriminated against on a daily basis. So they lash out in one form or another, as is actually understandable. so to then have a white person come and intellectualize the situation and tell them on how they should be feeling and acting will never be received well. I do not think I have articulated this point that well, but I hope you get the gist. There will be a cool down period as rights are bestowed and wrongs are addressed and apologized for. This is not to say the whites have to apologize personally for the actions of whites from years gone by, but more say, hey I'm sorry your race went through this, and we hear you are frustrated. From here on forward we want to move forward together for the betterment of all, etc.
The pain the black race have been through in the US should ensure they get given time to process and heal. Part of that will be anger. It would serve the white people to cut them some slack, let them vent and start healing. However, having said that, do not put guilt tripping shit in school books, or violently protest and burn other peoples shit down FFS.

[TheDemonLord]

Very telling that it is not actually a business that was run by Trump lol
For the record, I never seeked to watch the apprentice, but if it happened to be on and I had time, I quite liked it. Though even then I noticed he had a propensity to cut his nose off despite his face, qualities that did not serve him well as president.

I didn't watch it either (I'm allergic to 'reality' TV....)

Although just for you - I looked - he was the Executive Producer, so I believe that means he ran it (please don't make me look up Showbiz....)

I did not say all Trump. Lots Trump, not all Trump.

See, I think you are over-egging the pudding, If I were to be charitable - I could stretch to a 50/50 split

No one knows bar Trump and close confidants how much influence the Russians had, but when no US banks would lend him money and Trumps son is spouting his father was grabbing bunches of russian money, it is not good for that reason alone. I don't give credence to pee tapes and the like, but just being beholden to russians on money alone is not desirable for a US President to have.

A good look? Let's argue on the presumption this is true - it's not a good look, I can grant you that. But there's at least 3 degrees of separation between the Kremlin and Trump.

Maybe write to him and ask why?

I know the philosophy that drives his utterances. He voted Democrat so they'd create more 'Racially conscious' people.

You give way, way to much weight to those actions having that effect, truly.

Okay, riddle me this: When have the likes of the Taliban agreed to a Cease-fire with the US before then? Remembering this is a group that thinks Suicide Bombing is A-Okay, so it's not like the sanctity of life or the fear of Death is a limiting factor. I'll grant you it's conjecture - but you have to concede - it didn't happen under any other President.

I think only you could relate what you wrote to somehow being relevant why Trump capitulated to Putin on the World stage

I'll revisit this.

You found one! Though her life story could be interesting as to how she became like she is.

There's more that I've heard - as for her Life Story, honestly? I couldn't care less. She's a hateful racist who has lorded over the destruction of her city and countless deaths of primarily Black Lives.

Proven to be ineffective on Jan 6th, maybe if Trump had peppered his looooooong speech with more than one instance of the word?

you blundered into that carefully laid trap - you've now given me carte blanche to pin (by your standards) any violence done by the left wing on this issue (I think there was a firebombing of a pro-life office recently?) to this rhetorhic.

She absolutely would not. (imo)

Let me put it another way - she's be armed to the teeth and I'd be armed to the teeth and in the interest of avoiding mutual destruction, we'd both leave each other alone to live how we each saw fit.

And as I said - that suits me just fine.

Onto the next Post:

OK, I skipped to 1:28:33 and I can see where he is coming from, I think there is more to it, but what he says rings true.
Then I went from the start of the video, and listened right through to 1:28 again.
I like him, I barely disagree with anything he says. I like his style, sure he is somewhat intellectually pompous, however that does not make anything he says less true.

Intellectual Pompousness is kinda a British national passtime, just look at me

I particularly found the BLM part and talking around the racial issues to be very good - on an intellectual level he is absolutely correct. No race, color etc is better or worse than another. And yes, whites are very racially profiled and attacked now. Somethings the other ethnicity's are saying would be deemed incredibly racist if a white person was to say it - I had noticed.
As mentioned on an intellectual level it is 100% correct. The problem is that most people process racial issues at the emotional level.

So - I want to just take pause here - Douglas is one of the people whose views I listen to. I don't agree with him on everything and he is often very much of the centrist position and doesn't indulge in the more meme-y behavior (which I freely admit, I quite like).

However - this is what I'd consider to be approximately the current state of the centre-right libertarian world view, it's pointing to many issues in the current Left wing (which has gone radically left-wing) and going 'this isn't good'.

Case in point: A black person is seeing progress in equalities, despite the bad service the scam BLM movement has provided them. They see the progress, but there is much further to go (I have personally witnessed in the USA) thus they are still shitty and angry about being discriminated against on a daily basis. So they lash out in one form or another, as is actually understandable. so to then have a white person come and intellectualize the situation and tell them on how they should be feeling and acting will never be received well. I do not think I have articulated this point that well, but I hope you get the gist. There will be a cool down period as rights are bestowed and wrongs are addressed and apologized for. This is not to say the whites have to apologize personally for the actions of whites from years gone by, but more say, hey I'm sorry your race went through this, and we hear you are frustrated. From here on forward we want to move forward together for the betterment of all, etc.
The pain the black race have been through in the US should ensure they get given time to process and heal. Part of that will be anger. It would serve the white people to cut them some slack, let them vent and start healing. However, having said that, do not put guilt tripping shit in school books, or violently protest and burn other peoples shit down FFS.

It's a perfectly well made point - I want to offer two observations.

In your previous post, when I was defending Trump trying to work with Putin, you ridiculed it - replace the words 'Black' with 'Russia' and the word 'White' with the 'USA' - does that make the point I was making above clearer? The only difference being that when a Country lashes out...

Secondly - There's one element that I think you've omitted - it's that there is Money, Power and Influence in perpetuating a story of Victimhood. Now, if you believe you are victimized and that there is systemic oppression, then when there is an incident where race could be a factor, an individual will be inclined to view it from that context.

This creates a feedback loop - you believe everything is Racist, so therefore when something happens, it's because of Racism, that justifies the belief that everything is racist etc. ad infinitum.

I've heard people on the spicier end of the Politics also ask the question 'it's been X number of years - how long do you need to start healing?' - and then pointing out that if we look at Black-on-Black crime (the biggest killer of young black men) they are in California, in Chicago, in NYC - all very very very Liberal, 'progressive' places and drawing the conclusion that there's something rotten in the policies by those who profess to be the least racist.

[pritch]

But seeing as you asked for a successful Trump business:

The Apprentice.

A good attempt on your part. I'm nowhere near as impressed as you though. I regard programmes like that as mindless dross and have never seen it.
Anyway, as you yoursellf mentioned, it wasn't his business and he didn't run it.

And another: Wollman Rink.

LOL. That just comes across as desperate. Isn't that under investigation for tax fraud? Well, to be fair, I guess everything Trump is involved with is under investigation for fraud of one sort or another. Or multiples thereof.

[TheDemonLord]

A good attempt on your part. I'm nowhere near as impressed as you though. I regard programmes like that as mindless dross and have never seen it.
Anyway, as you yoursellf mentioned, it wasn't his business and he didn't run it.

Regardless of whether you or I watched it, the fact is it was a worldwide show - the catch-phrase 'You're Fired!' became a meme.

I mean, I don't listen to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga, but they are also world famous and cultural icons.

LOL. That just comes across as desperate. Isn't that under investigation for tax fraud? Well, to be fair, I guess everything Trump is involved with is under investigation for fraud of one sort or another. Or multiples thereof.

How is that desperate? It was run-down before Trump offered to renovate it, it's been a fixture of New York, in multiple films set in NY, Trump Inc ran it almost continually since they renovated it (a 6 year period where it was run by someone else, before reverting back to Trump) only to be seized by the Democrat Governor of NY after he got butthurt about Jan 6th.

I was unable to find any mention of the Rink and Fraud. I did see a report on the NYC website about an Audit, where it noted a number of minor issues, but it also noted (and I quote):

"we did not detect any improprieties"

[sugilite:Me]

See, I think you are over-egging the pudding, If I were to be charitable - I could stretch to a 50/50 split

A substantial percentage, shit lets make it an even more charitable 25% - still a very substantial number!

Okay, riddle me this: When have the likes of the Taliban agreed to a Cease-fire with the US before then? Remembering this is a group that thinks Suicide Bombing is A-Okay, so it's not like the sanctity of life or the fear of Death is a limiting factor. I'll grant you it's conjecture - but you have to concede - it didn't happen under any other President.

Those terms involved the US leaving Afganastan, which is a can trump then kicked down the road. I'm not impressed, why are you?

There's more that I've heard - as for her Life Story, honestly? I couldn't care less. She's a hateful racist who has lorded over the destruction of her city and countless deaths of primarily Black Lives.

I'm still interested how she became that way.

you blundered into that carefully laid trap - you've now given me carte blanche to pin (by your standards) any violence done by the left wing on this issue (I think there was a firebombing of a pro-life office recently?) to this rhetorhic.

Gotcha moment declined. Refer carefully to your recent fruity statement of comparing apples and oranges etc.

Let me put it another way - she's be armed to the teeth and I'd be armed to the teeth and in the interest of avoiding mutual destruction, we'd both leave each other alone to live how we each saw fit.

She would set about destroying you in the media at the very least.

So - I want to just take pause here - Douglas is one of the people whose views I listen to. I don't agree with him on everything and he is often very much of the centrist position and doesn't indulge in the more meme-y behavior (which I freely admit, I quite like).

However - this is what I'd consider to be approximately the current state of the centre-right libertarian world view, it's pointing to many issues in the current Left wing (which has gone radically left-wing) and going 'this isn't good'.

Actually, my experience is even when I' agree with you, 99% of the time you will then go on to tell me my reasoning for agreeing with you is completely wrong
Let us just from this point on just assume there is no one on earth you would consistently agree with, well maybe besides your wife on health and safety grounds

In your previous post, when I was defending Trump trying to work with Putin, you ridiculed it - replace the words 'Black' with 'Russia' and the word 'White' with the 'USA' - does that make the point I was making above clearer? The only difference being that when a Country lashes out...

TDS at it's finest, you framing Trumps capitulation as "working with Putin" must surely attract some sort of award - surely!

Secondly - There's one element that I think you've omitted - it's that there is Money, Power and Influence in perpetuating a story of Victimhood. Now, if you believe you are victimized and that there is systemic oppression, then when there is an incident where race could be a factor, an individual will be inclined to view it from that context.

There is that aspect too, the ideas I was floating was in course from the view that both parties in this would work together with honor and dignity. Two concepts sadly absent in nearly all aspects of modern life.

This creates a feedback loop - you believe everything is Racist, so therefore when something happens, it's because of Racism, that justifies the belief that everything is racist etc. ad infinitum.

I've heard people on the spicier end of the Politics also ask the question 'it's been X number of years - how long do you need to start healing?' - and then pointing out that if we look at Black-on-Black crime (the biggest killer of young black men) they are in California, in Chicago, in NYC - all very very very Liberal, 'progressive' places and drawing the conclusion that there's something rotten in the policies by those who profess to be the least racist.

Well a slippery slope here, why do blacks kill so many other blacks? It is almost as if a repressed people with no clear path to rise above the repression and are stuck in a quagmire of misery, poverty and violence end up fighting among themselves. I'm shocked - not.

[TheDemonLord]

Those terms involved the US leaving Afganastan, which is a can trump then kicked down the road. I'm not impressed, why are you?

If the US is in Afghanistan, then it needs to be building an Empire, like the British did.
If they aren't doing that, then they should pull out. The bit that I'm impressed with is that a deal was done and the Taliban appeared to abide by it.

I'm still interested how she became that way.

If I say 'Radical Left Wing politics' and 'it's okay to hate your oppressor' - does that explain it? But even then, I don't grant a lot of leeway to awful people who do awful things who then blame it on awful things being done to them.

Gotcha moment declined. Refer carefully to your recent fruity statement of comparing apples and oranges etc.

See, from my perspective - I'm happy to treat what she said as Rhetorhic. I think what she said was inflammatory, but I don't think she should be charged with incitement.

However, that's my standards - whereas you've been very clear on your view on Jan 6th, and so I'm using your standards.

She would set about destroying you in the media at the very least.

Like multiple people on here haven't tried the same, yet I'm still here, still arguing and still with no infractions for many a year. The proposal is acceptable to me.

Actually, my experience is even when I' agree with you, 99% of the time you will then go on to tell me my reasoning for agreeing with you is completely wrong
Let us just from this point on just assume there is no one on earth you would consistently agree with, well maybe besides your wife on health and safety grounds

Hahahahahaha nah I definitely argue with Her, It's like playing with fire - it's more fun when there's a risk of getting Burnt

TDS at it's finest, you framing Trumps capitulation as "working with Putin" must surely attract some sort of award - surely!

Work with or Work against. It's really the options here. And to my mind there's a number of ancillary facts that show one produced a better state of world affairs than the other

There is that aspect too, the ideas I was floating was in course from the view that both parties in this would work together with honor and dignity. Two concepts sadly absent in nearly all aspects of modern life.

That requires both groups to have something shared.

Like the idea that America is a good place/idea - not perfect, not that it has faltered in adhering to it's ideals - but that the ideals themselves are good.

When you remove that shared sense of identity and loyalty you can't work together. This sense is something that predominantly left-wing academia has been undermining for Decades (see Orwells quote about the self-loathing intelligencia)

Well a slippery slope here, why do blacks kill so many other blacks? It is almost as if a repressed people with no clear path to rise above the repression and are stuck in a quagmire of misery, poverty and violence end up fighting among themselves. I'm shocked - not.

There's been plenty of other Repressed groups - Indians, Japanese (WW2 Camps anyone), The Irish etc. who have not succumbed.

I feel you are doing a chicken and egg - let's add a few things in: Welfare systems that inadvertently incentivized single motherhood. The long history of Marxism in Black Nationalist movements - remember when BLM said it was against the Nuclear Family?

Telling an entire group they are the oppressed in the Marxist Oppressor/Oppressed dichotomy and removing Fathers out of the equation - that guarantees Poverty, it guarantees angry young men with no positive male role model.

I put it to you that those 2 factors - Lack of Fathers and the oppressed narrative is far more causal than the other factors (and creates those factors that you cite).

[sugilite:Me]

If the US is in Afghanistan, then it needs to be building an Empire, like the British did.
If they aren't doing that, then they should pull out. The bit that I'm impressed with is that a deal was done and the Taliban appeared to abide by it.

The Deal: We are leaving as soon as we can, if that is ok with you guys?"
Very impressive.

See, from my perspective - I'm happy to treat what she said as Rhetorhic. I think what she said was inflammatory, but I don't think she should be charged with incitement.

However, that's my standards - whereas you've been very clear on your view on Jan 6th, and so I'm using your standards.

I'm equally happy for her to be charged and judged in a court, same for Trump obviously.

Hahahahahaha nah I definitely argue with Her, It's like playing with fire - it's more fun when there's a risk of getting Burnt

Just pray she does not vote with her feet one day, hard to argue with that.

There's been plenty of other Repressed groups - Indians, Japanese (WW2 Camps anyone), The Irish etc. who have not succumbed.

No where near the same length of time or intensity, and not many of the ethnicity's you mention were unwilling immigrants.

I feel you are doing a chicken and egg - let's add a few things in: Welfare systems that inadvertently incentivized single motherhood. The long history of Marxism in Black Nationalist movements - remember when BLM said it was against the Nuclear Family?

We have established BLM are frauds in it for the donations and are not helping their people at all, so why mention them and the Marxists? Was the welfare system setup and administered by white dominated governments?

Telling an entire group they are the oppressed in the Marxist Oppressor/Oppressed dichotomy and removing Fathers out of the equation - that guarantees Poverty, it guarantees angry young men with no positive male role model.

So not telling them that would have solved all their problems huh?