Indicating, laws, etc...

[liviy]

Thanks for all the thoughts guys...definitely lots of information in various forms!

It's helping me collect my thoughts for the possible fun and games ahead. plus I've taken note for future situations on the road & in case of accidents.

Just still waiting for honda to get the photo's to the insurance company...one says they've sent them twice and the other reckon they've never received them...it's all _just peachy_ right now

[TLDV8]

I was always taught that it doesn't matter what the indicators are saying - always wait until the indicating vehicle actually starts to make a move before you make your move.

I as a rule if turning right on to a car turning left (which has to give way) i like to see it stop before continuing the turn.

Which reminds me (pic attached)

A week or so back it is around 7:30pm and quite dark (Maich and Browns Road/Manukau/AKLD)
I come up to a tee intersection in the car as i have done many times for a right turn,look left,there is a car coming but some way off,look right and a car is coming down the hill and indicates a left turn,as per usual i wait to see that it is infact going to slow for its turn.
As it gets closer it veer's to the left of the lane a little, slows right down and for sure is going to turn left.
I look left,that car is closer but i can safely making my turn,look right and that car is looking good also so i am good to go.
Did i ?
No i didn't,as i was about to,something did not seem right but was not sure what it was,something had caught my eye !!!!!!
To the right of that car turning left was a small strange dull patch of light just next to the light from the car.
I sat there,as that car slowed to take the turn what appears beside it and is now passing because of the car slowing,a motorcycle !!!!!! which i would have taken out for sure had i pulled out.
This person was sitting in the blind spot of the car if not up its rearend and to the right on a dark night coming through an intersection.
I guess the bike headlight was lower than the view through the car side windows.
Do you think it was their lucky night and probably had no idea what may have happened.
I think it was a newer unfaired Triumph with the triangular headlight.
I for one day or night on the bike make sure i am visible going past intersections for my own wellbeing.

That is how easy it is to have an accident,all i saw at first was two cars,all i saw when i looked second was two cars.
A good thing i am never in a hurry in the car and take my time at intersections.

As for the post,indicating says 3 seconds or 100 metres beforehand,but,you would have to be a !@#$wit to signal left prior to a intersection if turning left past that intersection.?
Most folk indicate right when pulling away from the curb.

[TLDV8]

The lady from the insurance company reckons that it doesn't matter that he was indicating left or anything as an indication is just an indication and doesn't have to mean anything.

The flipside is..What would her answer be if one of her clients was going to cross an intersection and you decided to drive around and signal a left turn at every tee intersection but drive straight on.
According to her it is just an indication (indication to others of your intention) so they would not try and get costs from you should there be a collision...yeah right.
The reality is although there is one rule,it applies to motorcyclists differently as they have more to lose even in a low speed impact.
Be careful out there but not to the point where you miss the obvious.

[peasea]

Agreed, roogazza and hitcher, but I'd be interested in what the legalities of it are, rather than the "ride to survive" side of things.

ie who would win in a court of law.

If you're able to appear in the court then you're already a winner.
True about not taking indicators as gospel, I never do, especially when I'm turning across the line of oncoming traffic.

The Road Code is one thing, the ability to stay alive is quite another. Sorry to hear about your prang liviy, stick to your guns in court and good luck.

[rok-the-boat]

The give way to the right rule got me into a lot of trouble when I first came to NZ early last year - I had no idea it even existed! And how would I? Now that I have gotten used to it, and thought about it, ... I have come to the conclusion that it is really stupid. One simple reason is that at any one time, say in summer, there are thousands of tourists driving about that do not know it. And even if you do, instinct prevents you from following it for ages. I think it is one of those things thought up by bureaucrats sat in comfy seats that just want to simplify their paperwork - so they come up with GIVE WAY TO THE RIGHT REGARDLESS. And another thing, in the US and Korea you can turn right (= left here) at a red light - it is such a good rule and keeps traffic moving, though you have to give way of course.

And back on topic, if the driver intended to turn laft and changed his mind you should win. I am very careful at NZ intersections because of the stoopid rule mentioneed above - I just don't trust anyone to take care of my life - so learn the lesson.

[NordieBoy]

And another thing, in the US and Korea you can turn right (= left here) at a red light - it is such a good rule and keeps traffic moving, though you have to give way of course.

Don't like that one.
Red means Stop.

[fridsy]

may not be any help but...

The way I had it explained to me was that failing to indicate is an infringement, while failing to give way is an offense.... offence beats infringement... wander if that applies to indicating when not planing to Turn?....

hay but what the f I know, just like most people here I drive/ride as if everyone else was out to get me!....maybe they are...mmm...

[janno]

As I understand it, the give way to the right rule used to be a UK rule (where we inherited it from), and an Aussie one too, but they both saw sense and scrapped it.

Without the hellish mayhem or disasters that the naysayers said would prevail.

I'm pretty sure we are the ONLY country in the world which still has this rule.

The only thing loopier that I have come across is the right hand hook turns in inner city Melbourne, to cater for the tram tracks. (Hug far left, dash across in the nanosecond between light phases changing or when there is a gap in traffic). Now that is scary if you're trying to navigate!

But highly entertaining to watch if you are standin on the street with a nice cup of coffee in hand . . .

[rok-the-boat]

Don't like that one.
Red means Stop.

Yeah, that'swhat I thought - but you soon learn to love it.

[denill]

Three things:

1 - Pleased that you are able to write about this.

2 - Bloody ridiculous r/h rule that places vehicles on a collision course.

3 - Don't take your right of way till you are sure it's been given to you. (You probly don't need me to tell you that!)

[denill]

The only thing loopier that I have come across is the right hand hook turns in inner city Melbourne, to cater for the tram tracks. (Hug far left, dash across in the nanosecond between light phases changing or when there is a gap in traffic). Now that is scary if you're trying to navigate!

But highly entertaining to watch if you are standin on the street with a nice cup of coffee in hand . . .

Yeah. I couldn't make that one out for ages?
And I was driving in the city!!!!!!!

[swbarnett]

Plus since when is the turning left rule giving way to traffic on your right when they are in fact oncoming......

When you turn right, you are approaching the left turning vehicle from their right.

[Grahameeboy]

When you turn right, you are approaching the left turning vehicle from their right.

Mmmm..no you are approaching from the opposite direction............when you exit a junction you give way to traffic approaching from your right because they are on your rightside and traffic approaching from your left because they are on your leftside.

When you turn right into a road you have to give way to traffic approaching from the opposite direction....they are not coming from your right and nor are you...........

When you are turning left, you are giving way to traffic coming from the oppositeSIDE that wants to turn right across you.......you are still oncoming because you are coming from the opposite direction, not the right...I mean is the head of the driver turning left looking right or straight ahead at the right turning vehicle?

[swbarnett]

Mmmm..no you are approaching from the opposite direction............

True, but only as you approach the intersection. The trick is to think of what relationship the two vehicles have when the right turning vehicle has entered the intersection and started to turn. I agree that this is perhaps a bit counter intuitive but I believe that this is the way it is seen in law.

To consider the fact that the vehicles are facing each other is of no use because this would mean that neither of them has to give way.

When you turn right into a road you have to give way to traffic approaching from the opposite direction....they are not coming from your right and nor are you...........

In a collision that results from this situation the right turning vehicle will always impact on the right side of the left turning vehicle. The give way rule applies primarily at the point where a collision would occur.

I mean is the head of the driver turning left looking right or straight ahead at the right turning vehicle?

Actually slightly right. But this is true for both drivers.

Note the black lines in the attached picture from the NZ road code. The rule applies to the lines, not to the cars as shown. The dotted line must give way because it is to the left of the solid one.

[Da Bird]

To the thread starter:
It appears given the facts stated that the driver of the indicating car was driving carelessly and the test in court is whether any reasonable person would expect a vehicle to turn if it had its indicator on. Of course any person would conclude that it is likely the vehicle intended to turn if it is indicating to do so and also visibly appears to be slowing in order to make the turn.

I would tend to agree with the above. Would a normal prudent driver indicate to turn left, slow down and pull to the left and then keep driving straight ahead? It looks pretty careless to me.

It gets debated in cop circles too and opinion seems to vary.. some say the person "not giving way" should be held accountable, and some not. At the least, I would say there was culpability on both parties.

BC.