Depression...

[Winston001]

So, chicken or egg?

Helping cures? Or a (nominal) cure allows a capacity to help which... ?

Such cynicism from one so young!


A problem shared is a problem halved. A hoary old aphorism perhaps but pertinent with this type of illness. Talking to other people who are non-judgemental and especially those who have experienced depression, helps.

[Ocean1]

You need help before you are able to give it. I got help from a good friend, and now it's payback. I recognise some of the noises Kitty and AJ are making from various places I've been.

I can't say I was exactly there - I wasn't... but I passed close enough to know the general landscape.

Close enough I'd say. Got a painting of that terain somewhere.

For me the ability to empathise never went away, was if anything an added burden. But the wherewithal to do anything useful for anyone else had to wait until I did some minimal self-reconstruction.

At that point, yes, helping those who's pain I could see provided not only a valuable distraction and a tangible goal but a kind of therapy.

Such cynicism from one so young!

A problem shared is a problem halved. A hoary old aphorism perhaps but pertinent with this type of illness. Talking to other people who are non-judgemental and especially those who have experienced depression, helps.

Bad take dude, it was a serious question.

The hoary thing? Works if you have the resources, otherwise it can be very dangerous. The failure of an attempt to help someone you care deeply about can be... hard to deal with for an emotionally strong person let alone a broken one.

[Winston001]

Bad take dude, it was a serious question.

The hoary thing? Works if you have the resources, otherwise it can be very dangerous. The failure of an attempt to help someone you care deeply about can be... hard to deal with for an emotionally strong person let alone a broken one.

Ah....my bad. You'll notice I did specify a non-judgemental listener. Often family and friends are not enough, or even the wrong people to talk to. They by virtue of knowing you, have an inbuilt bias which skews advice.

I agree too that a damaged listener might not be so good. I guess I was meaning someone who has experienced depression and become well again. Having the insight means they can help.

[Curious_AJ]

everyone talks about steps... but what exactly counts as a step?? where do i find these fabled steps? all i know is nothing, its like falling down a bottomless pit, always afraid of when you're going to hit the bottom and not be able to get out again...

[ManDownUnder]

everyone talks about steps... but what exactly counts as a step?? where do i find these fabled steps? all i know is nothing, its like falling down a bottomless pit, always afraid of when you're going to hit the bottom and not be able to get out again...

Doing something is a step.

Finding someone who you value the opinion of and taking a decision to believe them - and use their opinion as a basis of truth... to help you start evaluating your own... and understanding why it's different.

That's a step (quite a big one).

Simply standing up and being counted. "I am depressed" - that's a step.
Resolving to do what you can about it - that's a step.

[Kittyhawk]

It's all good hun... it's all good. You never let me down - and now I see you helping others up.

You know how I feel about that.

I always thought I had let you down as a mate, but infact I was wrong. Those thoughts do pass from time to time.
The only way I can help others is by basing it on my own experience. If I didnt have this I wouldnt know how to help in the slightest. And also MDU, you are a legend!

everyone talks about steps... but what exactly counts as a step?? where do i find these fabled steps? all i know is nothing, its like falling down a bottomless pit, always afraid of when you're going to hit the bottom and not be able to get out again...

You need to open your mind and not focus on the negative. I suggest your first step could be perhaps to admit you have a problem, accept yourself, or even admit to yourself you have issues, or a problem which needs sorting. Maybe step 1 write down your feelings each day.

Mentally change your way of thinking. I keep telling myself Im going to beat this. 9 months ago I still said this when I was at the lowest point in my life.

I admit, I have a problem and Im working through it, slowly. You know about some of my past. And Im dealing with it.

Only you can do this. If you dont who knows where you will be in 10 years time? Perhaps this illness would have got the better of you? Do you want that to happen?

The fear I have is that if I dont do something now, I know in 10 years Im going to be the one in a strait jacket, drugged up and under supervision. Never am I going to allow myself have that happen to me.

Maybe you need to get rid of all the bad things in life and start again no matter how hard that is. Finish your course and move out of the city? Start life again somewhere.

It is a cycle of depression but only you can break it. It's just your mind playing games. You have to get over this and say "Im in a low today bugger, but tomorrow will be better"

[007XX]

You need to open your mind and not focus on the negative. I suggest your first step could be perhaps to admit you have a problem, accept yourself, or even admit to yourself you have issues, or a problem which needs sorting. Maybe step 1 write down your feelings each day.

Mentally change your way of thinking. I keep telling myself Im going to beat this. 9 months ago I still said this when I was at the lowest point in my life.

I admit, I have a problem and Im working through it, slowly. You know about some of my past. And Im dealing with it.

Only you can do this. If you dont who knows where you will be in 10 years time? Perhaps this illness would have got the better of you? Do you want that to happen?

The fear I have is that if I dont do something now, I know in 10 years Im going to be the one in a strait jacket, drugged up and under supervision. Never am I going to allow myself have that happen to me.

Maybe you need to get rid of all the bad things in life and start again no matter how hard that is. Finish your course and move out of the city? Start life again somewhere.

It is a cycle of depression but only you can break it. It's just your mind playing games. You have to get over this and say "Im in a low today bugger, but tomorrow will be better"

Very well put sweets...bling sent, but it says only a little bit of how much I approve of what you just wrote.

[vifferman]

Sometimes even doing nothing is a step, if it's a conscious, well-considered decision. F'rinstance: "I feel really crappy at the moment, what am I going to do about it?"
One step to take could be doing nothing, in case how I feel is just a result of some transient thing, like being extra tired today, or the phase of the moon, or summat.

It's all about taking control of your life, and not just being tossed to-and-fro by the waves of "how you feel", or bogus thoughts you might have. Sometimes you need to just be honest and say, "I'm not in my right mind just now, and can't make a rational decision", and then take a small step to get yourself to a point where you CAN make a rational decision: either hand over decision-making to someone who is competent to make a decision for you*, or take a small step towards getting yourself in a better headspace.
Here's an example: I have drunk LOTS of coffee in the past. Recently I noticed that it sometimes makes me feel sad! Two small steps I've taken in response to this: I don't drink coffee when I'm feeling really crap, and I've cut back my daily intake, and drink tea, water or hot chocolate instead. (Yes, I know tea and chocolate are stimulants too, but they don't make me sad).

For me, I've become so good at navel-gazing ["Gosh - where did that lint come from? I don't remember wearing a pinkish-purplish-blackish-greenish woolly shirt!"] that I can say, "OK - I'm not functioning properly", and do something about it. At work it might mean I abandon trying to do some important project, and just do some "busy work", to keep myself distracted and productive. At home, it might mean I let my loved ones know I'm feeling crap and say, I'M sorry - I can't handle any stress or decision-making just now".
Sometimes (for example) I don't even realise I'm feeling anxious, till I catch myself doing something like twiddling an eyebrow or something, and I go, "Uh. I'm anxious..." and settle myself down.

How do you climb a mountain?
One step at a time.
Some will be big, easy steps, some of it's really hard slog, some of it's easy, but mostly it's just a whole bunch of little steps.

*"Handing over decision-making to someone who is competent to make a decision for you" means that when someone trustworthy gives you advice, you listen to what they say, and instead of arguing or making excuses as to why you can't follow their advice, you just TRUST tem and do it, regardless of how you feel about it.

[buellbabe]

I wouldnt say depression is like going down a steep hill, its more like the mind wonders into places which the heart forgets.

Oh my god... you nailed it...

On the nail as usual Chris.

AJ, sometimes you have to reach rock bottom before you come out of it. Just keep trying and you will win.

Well Aj it certainly sounds like things are pretty bad for you... but honestly...no matter how bad you think things are...just know that there are people out there who would willingly swap their lives for yours cos theirs SUCK EVEN MORE...

FARK! My defination of personal hell is having my lover die in my arms... for a while I seriously wondered if there was much point in carrying on.
It might sound cheesey but my animals gave me a reason to carry on...

It has been a bloody hard road and the person that emerged thru it all is not the person I used to be... I think that sometimes we are too concerned with wanting to "be like I used to be"... well maybe we just gotta accept that shit happens and embrace the new me.
is this making any sense?
I know what I am trying to say but I don't know if its coming out right...

[deanohit]

You'll notice I did specify a non-judgemental listener. Often family and friends are not enough, or even the wrong people to talk to. They by virtue of knowing you, have an inbuilt bias which skews advice.

For that very reason I dont talk about my problems with some of those closest to me. My mum, despite going through post-natal depression after my youngest brother was born doesnt understand what is happening with me and is quite hurt by it all and see's it as her fault despite repeated objections from me. My best mate is of the HTFU school. I lived with him and his family from age 13 till 18, and his attitude was the reason I moved out. Now 4 years on we are back to been great mates again.Helps that he's over 1000kms away

And AJ, do what you gotta do, good luck with whatever path you choose to follow.

[Curious_AJ]

yeah, I KNOW people's lives suck even more than mine... I've been told that every day of my life "you have the good life, youre privelaged, you have it all, you have money, you have family blah, blah, blah, fucking blah!"

I'm sick of all the "step" talk... "steps" don't work for me... i can't make conscious steps to makemyself feel better... but the point of the matter is, I'm ready to give up. I wont kill myself, but I'll probably just leave things to turn out as they turn out, because i CANT do anything, im powerless over my own self... I don't care anymore.

[jazbug5]

Sometimes even doing nothing is a step, if it's a conscious, well-considered decision. F'rinstance: "I feel really crappy at the moment, what am I going to do about it?"
One step to take could be doing nothing, in case how I feel is just a result of some transient thing, like being extra tired today, or the phase of the moon, or summat... Sometimes you need to just be honest and say, "I'm not in my right mind just now, and can't make a rational decision"

I think vifferman and others had some excellent advice in their posts; they are not all about making huge and difficult changes, if at all. As I said before, there are times when you can do nothing but weather the storm.

At no point did I read anyone point out to you that others have it harder, so 'HTFU'.* It's your choice though, if you want to read that into what they have said.
'This too shall pass'. Think about that quote.
When it does pass, you may find a little more strength to begin stepping.

There are people out there who have it harder, yes. But you are on your own journey, and no-one can feel what you feel for you any more than you can suffer for those who have harder lives and bigger things to deal with.

* EDIT: I see, I missed what you were reacting to in buellbabe's post- I read it differently, i.e. I took it as meant, I think. See her follow-up.

[buellbabe]

Hey AJ I wasn't passing judgement when I commented that there are other leading worse lifes!

When I was in hell it helped me gain some perspective to realise that things actually could be worse...

but I get it that hell is different for everyone.

[Curious_AJ]

I can't even begin to describe what's going on for me...

and i know you weren't.. i just snapped because i realised what a f***tard i am.

and now I'm stuck here alone again. I was told to get out, to even go get some booze. but I just can't be arsed.. there is no point to it.. I live in my own world now. the outside one doesn't seem to get through to me... neither does the bigger picture... which i know I should try to see.. but every time I look at it, I retreat further...

[Kittyhawk]

yeah, I KNOW people's lives suck even more than mine... I've been told that every day of my life "you have the good life, youre privelaged, you have it all, you have money, you have family blah, blah, blah, fucking blah!"

I'm sick of all the "step" talk... "steps" don't work for me... i can't make conscious steps to makemyself feel better... but the point of the matter is, I'm ready to give up. I wont kill myself, but I'll probably just leave things to turn out as they turn out, because i CANT do anything, im powerless over my own self... I don't care anymore.

So answer me this, if the step talk is bugging you, and steps dont work. How can it even work if you dont try?

AND if small steps aren't the answer, what do you think will work for you?

The highlighted pieces in your post, show how negative this is.

"I dont care anymore" is a load of bullshit sorry. You live with your family, they care, you have a partner, so you obviously care about him otherwise you'd be single.

There were reasons why I left my ex and one of those reasons were I wasn't happy in myself so how can I be happy with others?