Proposed new wet tyre rule

[oyster]

Not too good on this quote stuff, hope this makes sense
From Maarty's post


"The conditions that day this all started well beyond bad."
If slicks were so useless, why didn't they all fall off? In fact one fell off on treads, another on slicks, who promptly got back on and qualified second.
Obviously no (slick) tyre problem with that rider, or anyone else that day. And all this prior to our decision to make grooving mandatory.

"in fact they are still going slower than times Dennis and I were doing when Tim ran the winter series!"
Of course you'd go way faster Maarty, I bought your old bike and found it chock full of illegal modifications..... I cost me heaps to restore it (wish I hadn't bought it)

"I am someone who will continue to support young riders get a leg in the door by offering them rides on my bikes.
BUT!
Not at the expense of safety."
An article in Kiwi Rider says you took a 12 year old, who'd never rider any type of road bike, to Taupo and put him on your dangerously unreliable 125GP bike and set about to lap time him. If this is your idea of safe development of young riders, sorry, you and I never going have any common ground.
Yes, we train 12 year olds, on RG50's and strict "on track" coaching for a long time. All per MNZ rules, (in excess of) then they graduate to Streetstock. That's the safe way
[/QUOTE]

[Shaun]

At the MNZ appeal meeting some stats were presented, and it was made clear they were to be challenged if anyone wasn't happy with them. No one took up the offer.

Jan 20th at Ruapuna Nat support class Streetstock
RAINING in qualifying
43 riders, (17 on treaded tyres, 26 on Grooved slicks)
Av tread lap time 2.20.8, av slick time 2.17.8
Best tread time, 2.13 (these TT900 tyres were fresh, and the rider got 2nd in the series)
Next best tread time 2.16 (again, fresh tyres, BT39SS. Rider full time rider,
huge experience in small cap and big race bikes. Recently scored 10th in an AMA superbike race in the rain)

Best slick time 2.05 This rider got first in the series (well deserved)

Who says the slicks dont work?

Now for the overall stats
86 000km, 4 years, 80 bikes, 3 circuits, 100 bikes.
22% on treaded tyres, 78% on slicks.
Average crash rate over this time:
304km per crash for treads
2089 km per crash for slicks

Who says the slicks are unsafe?

Before people (including MNZ ) jump to conclusions, they should check the facts first

Now Please show the ages of these riders for Stat reasons

ie, were the faster riders older people or Young 12-15 year olds that this was origanlly aimed at

My point is, older riders have more knoledge and common sense that the young riders this class is aimed at, so the fact the fast times were done by OLD riders, helps to cancell out the fact that slicks are OK in the wet, as the only way the older riders managed to do so well, was because they have the track time and age on there side to help make the correct desisions.

Tyres are designed by chemists and engineers, racing is a professional sport, if Slicks were actually SAFE in the wet, they would be used by the fast professionals that we are all respect, but they do not, because slicks are actually dangerous in the wet! Proven world wide fact!

[Sketchy_Racer]

Shaun I think your still thinking along the lines of BIG bikes here.

Have you got any expreience in 150SS racing? and on slicks in the wet?

And of course an older rider with more track time -should- be faster. But that isn't the point. we are looking at crash statistics here. The laps times just proove what the slicks are capable on these bikes.

One more question.

Seen as you dont like the idea of slicks in the wet, What is your bright idea to fix the so called 'problem'?

Cause I'm failing to see where the problem is to be honest. So why are you trying to fix it (or critsize it in this case)

Regards,

Glen

[roogazza]

Slicks are now good in the rain !!! ?? Have I been missing something ?
I think I'd rather listen to Shaun than some on here who have been racing
3 minutes ! I was away from bikes for 12 yrs and technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds I know, but really ? Gaz.

[Shaun]

Shaun I think your still thinking along the lines of BIG bikes here.

Have you got any expreience in 150SS racing? and on slicks in the wet?

And of course an older rider with more track time -should- be faster. But that isn't the point. we are looking at crash statistics here. The laps times just proove what the slicks are capable on these bikes.

One more question.

Seen as you dont like the idea of slicks in the wet, What is your bright idea to fix the so called 'problem'?

Cause I'm failing to see where the problem is to be honest. So why are you trying to fix it (or critsize it in this case)

Regards,

Glen

I am thinking about racing in general with my posts here

Yes I have ridden ( Not Raced) a 150, and yes I have ridden in the rain on slicks, but not on a 150

Yes older more experienced riders will have an advantage in this situation, but Peter, ( Oyster) has always talked to me about this class being there for very young riders, so the stats of age of rider is very important! did the young go fast in the wet on slicks, or did the older more experienced rider go faster?

I have not said any time that I have bright idea of how to fix this issue, I have said, that the original post was wrong, after spending my own money and talking to MNZ about it to find out the facts, I have also said that getting on the internet and bad mouthing some one or organisation will not fix this problem, I have also said that slicks are crap in the wet, and they are, just ask any top level rider from any where in the world, or look at any rules any where in the world.

What I have been trying to say and do is, hang on every one and get your facts correct, and please talk direct to MNZ people about it, and please lets get this class back to a young age limit class as it was intended to be.

No where have I been trying to fix it or critisise it, please re read my posts and think about what I have said.

[Shaun]

I will not be posting in this subject any more.

I have just read the latest post by Oyster, and is another typically weak rubbish posting, like the one last week where he just bad mouths MNZ.

This class is an important part of our racing scene, but if it is to be run by people like him, who just get on the internet and attack people, then I will cannot be bothered waisting my time any more on it.

Oyster, pull your head in, and act like a leader, not a child with nothing intelligent to say.

[Kickaha]

because slicks are actually dangerous in the wet! Proven world wide fact!

Thats incorrect, they may well be on the 600 and 1000cc bikes you're used to riding, but you admit yourself you haven't ridden a 150 in the wet on slicks so how would you know how they perform?

yes I have ridden in the rain on slicks, but not on a 150

Slicks are now good in the rain !!! ?? Have I been missing something ?

Yes you have been missing something, just remember we're talking bikes with a considerably lower power to weight ratio than any other class on the track and running narrower rims and tyres than any other class (which brings up another issue)

I think I'd rather listen to Shaun than some on here who have been racing 3 minutes ! I was away from bikes for 12 yrs and technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds I know, but really ? Gaz.

So you'd rather listen to someone (who by his own admission) hasn't ridden one of these bikes in the rain on slicks than others who have either ridden them or similar bikes or been much more involved in the class than he has?

[Tim 39]

looks to me like this thread is going round and round in circles

[dangerous]

Slicks are now good in the rain !!! ?? Have I been missing something ?
I think I'd rather listen to Shaun than some on here who have been racing
3 minutes ! I was away from bikes for 12 yrs and technology has moved forward in leaps and bounds I know, but really ? Gaz.

As Kick said mate, (you will need to read all the thread) we are talking about skinny wee fuker slicks that cut through the wet surface rather than ride up on top of it due to 3 times the contact area and 5 times the power.

[Racey Rider]

Could be stats be influenced by different tyre pressures?

When I first raced, I rode on the standard IRC rubber. heaps of tread. 33psi.
Nobody told me that wasn't a good racing option till after a crash.

Now I feel 'comfortable' with my worn out TT900's as I have by trail and error, learned how to get some heat into them with lower pressers.

Ofcourse, having said that,, I have now put the 'kiabosh' on me for my next race day


Would it be better to have a 3 year limit to streetstocks racing than an age limit?

Where are us 'old wannabe' first timers suppost to start?
F3 - Too full already.
Clubmans? Rapidly filling up + 1000/600cc bikes passing us.
125's? - Get lapped twice by the young Guns and be too embarrassed to come back again!
Then again - theres plenty of room in Vic Club Streetstocks at the moment.

[Tim 39]

To be honest I cxant see the point in having an age limit, or any sort of limit. Why give them the boot out of the class if we decide they arent going to win GP's? how bout leaving the "have fun" ones in to give the serious ones some passing practice and better racecraft experience

[Kickaha]

Would it be better to have a 3 year limit to streetstocks racing than an age limit?

thats probably the best option suggested

[Tim 39]

why the limiting though? do we want more racers? im failing to see the point...

[ajturbo]

To be honest I cxant see the point in having an age limit, or any sort of limit. Why give them the boot out of the class if we decide they arent going to win GP's? how bout leaving the "have fun" ones in to give the serious ones some passing practice and better racecraft experience

that be me...i'm out there to have fun...

but getting back to this tyre "chat"...

in the early 80's i used to race buckets.... in the wet (rivers) of woodbourn (sp?)... i had a slick on the front...could i get the front to slide???....no it was always the rear ( treaded yoky)....in fact the slick at the end of the year had canvase showing... and still it wouldn't let go!

would i do this on my 750 that i took around ruapuna?? fuck off

[oyster]

Although not in MNZ rules, we've had age limits in place for 3 years now via Supp rules. The Sportzfotoz Cup has an age cap of 16 years old, and competing riders must have no more than 2 race meetings in a more senior class. So, for example, the 13 year old who won it last year who is now on a 125GP cannot "come back" and win it. We may yet add to this to say it can't be won twice, so a 13 year old can't win it everry yuear till he's 17! At the National support class series again via Supp rules we put an age cap of 19 years old, and above that is a separate class "senior". This is now applied in club meetings in the South Island, and the seniors carry red numbers on white to distinguish themselves.
All this is working really great, and I believe has also been informally applied by a sponsor in the Vic series this year.

As for "capping" the class completely. Definitely no, as we are enjoying a great culture of mums amd dads, kids and all riding together at the moment.
Streetstock is excellent for any new rider, or returning one looking for that first step of confidence.