What to look for on VTRs?

[vifferman]

The newer CCT has a red dot on it, not sure if you can see it without stripping the bike.

Not true - there is no "new CCT"; they are all the same, regardless of whether the dot is red, pink, purple, or green. You have a choice of replacing them every couple of years, or ditching them for APE CCTs, or converting them to manual. If you don't warm the bike up by leaving it idling on the sidestand, and don't use engine braking excessively, they'll last longer. If you buy APE CCTs, don't get them from the local dealer - he adds 100% just for ordering them from the US for you.

Other issues:
Gearbox. If you get a newish, low-mileage bike, get a Factory Pro Evo Star kit for it before the changes get crappy. (That's if they actually make one). Also, don't keep the chain too tight - it will make a tired gearbox much worse for popping out of gear, missed shifts, etc.
Cutting out: They can have issues with cutting out if the idle speed isn't set right, and the carb's are set up a little lean. You go to change down or come to a stop, and the bike does a little backfire and blows the flames out. Easily tweaked to fix it.
Suspension: Too cheap. I actually thought my stock suspension was pretty good compared to other Hondas I've owned, but it's not set up right WRT spring and damping rates. Replacement front springs and a new rear shock are the go.
Comfort: The early models (pre-2001?) have handlebars that are too low for around town, and the seat is not designed for humans. Baboons, perhaps?
Gearing: They're geared WAAAAY too high, with the engine turning over at only 2600 at 100km/h. Fit a larger rear sprocket/smaller front sprocket and up the smiles/miles ratio heaps.
Looks: Not much you can do about those, but the VTR is one ugly mofo. An aftermarket bellypan or fairing lower helps. Then again, you can't see how it looks when you're sitting on it.
Fuel consumption: I was lucky to get 30mpg from mine, or about 150km/h per tankful. Just one of those things, I guess. Just keep an eye on the mileage, because when those 48mm carbs suck the dredges from the tank VERY fast.
Electrical: Apart from the aforementioned R/R issues, the front plug lead/boot can be problematic, as it's exposed to water/shit coming off the front tyre. Mine had a very small tear in it, and whenever it rained the ignition would cut out. Easily and cheaply fixed.
Brakes: The front brake lines are stupid; the 'hump' above the front mudguard collects air bubbles which are hard to bleed out, and makes the brakes VERY mushy. Fitting braided lines can make them feel a bit wooden, but improves things heaps (and looks kewler).
Power: 'Adequate', but not huge. The wheel-lofting torque hit that starts at around 3k rpm is nice, and I still miss it. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do to liberate more than a couple of HP without spending HUGE money on cams, pistons, etc. In any case, if by chance you did achieve Ducati-esque power levels, the bike wouldn't be reliable any more, as the crankcases can't handle more than about 125hp before self-destructing.

[NordieBoy]

So...
You're not looking at a VTR250 then.

[Fatjim]

Not true - there is no "new CCT"; they are all the same, regardless of whether the dot is red, pink, purple, or green. You have a choice of replacing them every couple of years, or ditching them for APE CCTs, or converting them to manual. If you don't warm the bike up by leaving it idling on the sidestand, and don't use engine braking excessively, they'll last longer. If you buy APE CCTs, don't get them from the local dealer - he adds 100% just for ordering them from the US for you.

Anecdotal evidence shows the newer CCT's are less prone to fail, and since Honda made no changes to the internals of the engines in regard to this problem then its a safe assumption to assume they improved the quality of the spring in the newer ones. Very rare to hear of a VTR shitting a cct nowadays. ( I hope mine don't fail this week and make me look like a dipshit).

Suspension: Too cheap. I actually thought my stock suspension was pretty good compared to other Hondas I've owned, but it's not set up right WRT spring and damping rates. Replacement front springs and a new rear shock are the go.

Way over compression damped, not recommended by those in the know not to do just the springs.

Comfort: The early models (pre-2001?) have handlebars that are too low for around town, and the seat is not designed for humans. Baboons, perhaps?

Personal choice, since VTR's seem to riden by old fat bastards then this tends to be true.

Gearing: They're geared WAAAAY too high, with the engine turning over at only 2600 at 100km/h. Fit a larger rear sprocket/smaller front sprocket and up the smiles/miles ratio heaps.

Shit mate, what size rear tyre was it running, something of a large farming vehicle? ~3,400 RPM at 100k in top, ~4,100RPM at 120k

Looks: Not much you can do about those, but the VTR is one ugly mofo. An aftermarket bellypan or fairing lower helps. Then again, you can't see how it looks when you're sitting on it.
Fuel consumption: I was lucky to get 30mpg from mine, or about 150km/h per tankful. Just one of those things, I guess. Just keep an eye on the mileage, because when those 48mm carbs suck the dredges from the tank VERY fast.

Fuel millage varies, but an 2001+ model will get between 200 and 240k before the light comes on, expect another 40k+ from that. Some say more than 240k, but their (ok they're) the exception with a sweetly tuned motor. I've replaced air filters and chains and got about 20% fuel efficiency (and better top speed) out of each.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Make sure if you get a VTR that the battery is good in it, we've got one in at work for a full service at the moment and it's up for a new battery over $300 for a decent one and $95 for a cheap Chinese one

I have just replaced my battery... but put a cheaper chinese battery in as I didn't have the spare $300 either

My theory is if I get a couple of years out of the cheaper one then ok or 4 years (maybe 5 thats how long the old one was) out of the good one then it still works out cheaper...

[vifferman]

Anecdotal evidence shows the newer CCT's are less prone to fail, and since Honda made no changes to the internals of the engines in regard to this problem then its a safe assumption to assume they improved the quality of the spring in the newer ones. Very rare to hear of a VTR shitting a cct nowadays. ( I hope mine don't fail this week and make me look like a dipshit).

The guy in the UK (a Firestorm fanatic and mechanic) I bought my CCTs from had pulled several apart and found them all identical.

Way over compression damped, not recommended by those in the know not to do just the springs.

Fairy Nuff.
I didn't do anything to mine apart from just adjust them, as I couldn't afford it.

Personal choice, since VTR's seem to riden by old fat bastards then this tends to be true.

I'm nearly old, but not so fat.
I found my bars ('97) a bit too low for commuting (which was most of my riding) but OK for the open road. The newer ones are 19mm higher and a slightly different angle.

Shit mate, what size rear tyre was it running, something of a large farming vehicle? ~3,400 RPM at 100k in top, ~4,100RPM at 120k

I suspect the later ones had lower final gearing than the '97s, unless the PO had stuck a smaller rear sprocket on, as 2600rpm@100km/h is what it read, with a 16T countershaft sprocket.

Fuel millage varies, but an 2001+ model will get between 200 and 240k before the light comes on, expect another 40k+ from that. Some say more than 240k, but their (ok they're) the exception with a sweetly tuned motor. I've replaced air filters and chains and got about 20% fuel efficiency (and better top speed) out of each.

Once again, I had a (thrashed) 1997 model, with a Unifilter and customised (read 'bastardised') mufflers, and (supposedly) a Dynojet kit and shimmed mains. The RLOD (Orangey-red LED of Doom) would come on at an indicated 120-130 km (actually 130-140km) and the tank was dry at about 160 or so. And once again, most of my riding was thrashing the bike to work and back on suburban streets.

[Fatjim]

The guy in the UK (a Firestorm fanatic and mechanic) I bought my CCTs from had pulled several apart and found them all identical.


Fairy Nuff.
I didn't do anything to mine apart from just adjust them, as I couldn't afford it.


I'm nearly old, but not so fat.
I found my bars ('97) a bit too low for commuting (which was most of my riding) but OK for the open road. The newer ones are 19mm higher and a slightly different angle.


I suspect the later ones had lower final gearing than the '97s, unless the PO had stuck a smaller rear sprocket on, as 2600rpm@100km/h is what it read, with a 16T countershaft sprocket.



Once again, I had a (thrashed) 1997 model, with a Unifilter and customised (read 'bastardised') mufflers, and (supposedly) a Dynojet kit and shimmed mains. The RLOD (Orangey-red LED of Doom) would come on at an indicated 120-130 km (actually 130-140km) and the tank was dry at about 160 or so. And once again, most of my riding was thrashing the bike to work and back on suburban streets.

The part that fails on the cct is the spring, which I imagine is hard to tell a better tempered one from another with an eyeball, certainly the tension would be the same and thereofor I'd expect the external dimension to be similar if not the same. Also, it generally, in fact pretty much always is the front CCT that fails. It has been speculated by people who know the bike very well that it starves of oil, especially at startup when on the side stand. Its been suggested that starting them vertical ensures better oil splash on the CCT when starting.

The speedo comes off the gearbox I think, therefor the revs to indicated doesn't change regardless of the tyre/gearing, although the revs to actual speed of course does. To my knowledge, the gearing has never changed and I'd be very surprised if it had. I do not remember noticing it on the pre 2001 I rode and I'm sure I would have.

Its funny how the pre 2001 always sem to get really crap millage, but the 2001+ with only a couple more litres in the tank get sooooooo much more. Yours isn't the first quote of around 140-160k I've seen. When I first got the vtr I could get below 200k before RLOD, now I can't get over it .

[dangerous]

The part that fails on the cct is the spring,

And this is where bloody Honda are a let down... the spring not only can brake but loose tension, ie: it looses its strenth to keep the chain tight... NOW other bike makers use a ratchet system were once the tensioner clicks onto the next tension it cant possibly go backwards... now why the hell cant Honda do that, OH thats right then they would make no money on parts.

[Harry the Barstard]

nother dumb question. What the hell is a CCT?

[Ocean1]

nother dumb question. What the hell is a CCT?

Cross-catharpin trunion.



OK OK, cam chain tensioner.

[Harry the Barstard]

Sweet that clears it up. lol

[Harry the Barstard]

Cross-catharpin trunion.



OK OK, cam chain tensioner.

AHHH, Cheers. Shit you dont want that shitting it self. So i take it they get a bit rattly when they get a bit loose?

[Ocean1]

AHHH, Cheers. Shit you dont want that shitting it self. So i take it they get a bit rattly when they get a bit loose?

Yup, and on some engines the valve timing changes juuuust enough that the piston hits 'em on the way up. Crunch. Bugger.

Few engines have "issues" with tensioners, I like the ones that are oil pressure loaded with a ratchet/pawl mechanism backing that up.

[dangerous]

AHHH, Cheers. Shit you dont want that shitting it self. So i take it they get a bit rattly when they get a bit loose?

Its bit of a wise tail... since the first VTR in 97 the local Honda shop in Chch have only ever had one cct failer... so nont worry about it and if it should let go then all that happens is a loud rattle from the chain, fuk me look at the old XR those cct would loose tension and you could ride the bike till the chain wore its way out the barrel.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Its bit of a wise tail... since the first VTR in 97 the local Honda shop in Chch have only ever had one cct failer... so nont worry about it and if it should let go then all that happens is a loud rattle from the chain, fuk me look at the old XR those cct would loose tension and you could ride the bike till the chain wore its way out the barrel.

I've only ever heard of one case when that happened myself. Heck if you are going to be parinoid about every possible little thing that could or may go wrong on any bike then my advise is to start walking.

If you look deep enough I am sure you will find something similar on all bikes that could or might let go or go wrong, or...or...or... If you thrash the crap out of it all the time and do real heavy engine breaking all the time don't do any maintience, kick it spit on and fart in its general direction you have a bigger chance something is going to let go...

Look after it and you won't have any problems...

[vifferman]

Its bit of a wise tail... since the first VTR in 97 the local Honda shop in Chch have only ever had one cct failer... so nont worry about it and if it should let go then all that happens is a loud rattle from the chain

Nup, sorry Mr D, but you're wrong (incorrect). The PO of my VTR had the CCT fail (it's invariably the front one) and the chain jumped a tooth or two on the cam gear and the piston and valves had a wee bit of "catastrophic interference". Two new valves, two new camchains and four* new tensioners were the result.

fuk me look at the old XR those cct would loose tension and you could ride the bike till the chain wore its way out the barrel.

LOL. My first Honda (CB175) was like that. The camchain had so much 'throw' that it had eaten a huge chunk out of the inside of the crankcase/barrel casting. EVERY Honda I've owned since then has been like that, bar 3: MT250 (two smoke) and two VFRs (gear-driven cams). Honda should give up on camchains and make all their bikes gear-driven cams.


*Two new CCTs, and then the manual ones I replaced the new ones with.