Chef stabs assailant and now faces prison.

[peasea]

yes

but unfortunately he pleaded guilty to stabbing his attacker 'with intent to do grievious bodily harm'

once again one wonders at at the competency of those supposed to be legally advising and defending him

the devil's in the detail - even wen caught standing over a corpse hacked to death with a meat cleaver - with said cleaver still clutched in one's hot little hand and smothered in blood, guts and gore, the only SENSIBLE thing to say, surely, is either nothing or "i never meant to hurt him i was scared for my life and just defending myself"

as it is the poor sod now has two years to figure out what he did/said wrong.

Find his lawyer and shoot the fuck.

[Finn]

Find his lawyer and shoot the fuck.

No, you're not listening. Visit the lawyer with the objective of discussing how his professional advice was rather fucking stupid. Then tell the cops he was alive when he left the appointment.

[davereid]

Bullshit. Name me the last case in New Zealand where somebody did serious jail time for retaliating in a situation where they were protecting life, limb or their personal dwelling.

Police have regularly prosecuted people for self defence.

The fact they can't find a jury that will convict does not diminish the fact that they try.

Part of the chefs problem was most likely money - he didn't have enough to get a good lawyer.

[peasea]

No, you're not listening. Visit the lawyer with the objective of discussing how his professional advice was rather fucking stupid. Then tell the cops he was alive when he left the appointment.

Thank you, sheer brilliance. Where shall we meet?

[peasea]

Police have regularly prosecuted people for self defence.

The fact they can't find a jury that will convict does not diminish the fact that they try.

Part of the chefs problem was most likely money - he didn't have enough to get a good lawyer.

Oh so true.

[JimO]

Police have regularly prosecuted people for self defence.

The fact they can't find a jury that will convict does not diminish the fact that they try.

Part of the chefs problem was most likely money - he didn't have enough to get a good lawyer.

did QC Williams not defend him then.............no he would be on the gangstas side

[peasea]

did QC Williams not defend him then.............no he would be on the gangstas side

He's a worry, that critter. Sometimes I scratch my head.

Sometimes I scratch my ball bag.

[JimO]

Sometimes I scratch my ball bag.

thats a vision i can do without

[peasea]

What can I say? I play a lot of tennis.

[crshbndct]

should have killed the entire group of punks. with a spoon.


that may sound a tad harsh, but i have no time at all for littel punks who think they are 50 cent or eminem or some stupid shit. case in point:
my 7 mth pregnant cousin and her husband were walking to their car after going out to watch a rugby game at a bar about 2 years ago, when they were accosted by a group of teenagers, (probably spouting some similiar pseudo-gangs style bull shit about bloods and crips, which is horseshit in new zealand) one of the gangies decided to give my cousin a push, which knocked her over, so my cousin in law immediately got on the ground to see how she was. becasue he was down they decided to attack him.

he is now blind in one eye, has only one kidney, and cant recognise my cousin, or anyone from later than about when he was 15 years old, and has no idea that he has a baby. he cannot work anymore and is violent a lot.

[peasea]

should have killed the entire group of punks. with a spoon.


that may sound a tad harsh, but i have no time at all for littel punks who think they are 50 cent or eminem or some stupid shit. case in point:
my 7 mth pregnant cousin and her husband were walking to their car after going out to watch a rugby game at a bar about 2 years ago, when they were accosted by a group of teenagers, (probably spouting some similiar pseudo-gangs style bull shit about bloods and crips, which is horseshit in new zealand) one of the gangies decided to give my cousin a push, which knocked her over, so my cousin in law immediately got on the ground to see how she was. becasue he was down they decided to attack him.

he is now blind in one eye, has only one kidney, and cant recognise my cousin, or anyone from later than about when he was 15 years old, and has no idea that he has a baby. he cannot work anymore and is violent a lot.

Was there any action taken against the perps?
That sounds like a serious deal and in need of some jail time. What was the outcome in regards to the attackers?

[Teflon]

Sounds like they were a bunch of young kids who watch to much T.V. If they were street hardened, the chef would have been beaten to death, simple.

Personally, i think it's a little weak stabbing a 15yr kid. If the kid had pulled a knife out, sure, kill him.

If you look like a victim, you'll become one..

[crshbndct]

well they ran off before they were caught and the description was young man in hoodies of average height and weight... so the cops did nothing

[Wolf]

In the case of the chef, there is so much we do not know.

There was at least one witness to the incident - the bus driver - who would have been questioned in depth about it. The chef's lawyer would have knowledge of the driver's statement and any statements made by other witnesses if there were any.

Was there something in that/those statement(s) that would have made a self-defence plea indefensible? Did the chef say or do something that would, if brought to light in court, support a charge of attempted murder?

Remember: all the chef would have to do is yell "I'll fucking kill you cunts" in a moment of anger and a prosecutor would make a meal of that in the court room:

"Did you hear the accused threaten to kill his victim?"
"Yes, he screamed that he was going to kill them all then stabbed one of them."

Not saying it happened that way, but that is one possibility - something that could possibly be said in anger that would be twisted by a prosecutor to look like intent to commit murder.

Remember: anything that could be used to reflect badly upon the chef would be used by the prosecutor in an attempt to prove a charge of attempted murder beyond reasonable doubt.

Was there something said or done that, in the legal opinion of the defence lawyer, would be sufficient to warrant that accusation?

I recall being obliged to eat my dinner outside the fish and chip shop because I could not get back into the street in which I lived - the area had been cordoned off by armed police due to a bloke yelling at his wife in a fit of temper "I'll fucking shoot you, you bitch". That was sufficient to provoke an armed call-out. He didn't actually have a weapon, not even a toy, he was screaming in anger and got carried away with his threats. Then he got driven away by the police.

If the chef said or did anything in his anger at being assaulted and intimidated that a prosecution lawyer could deem to be "excessive" or a death threat, he'd be bang in trouble.

Under NZ law, not even cops are allowed to "shoot to kill", only "shoot to stop". If it can be demonstrated that a person's intent when wielding a weapon was to kill, then a murder charge could conceivably be prosecuted. If, for example, a cop were to be heard to say "stop or I'll kill you" or "I'm gonna kill that motherfucker", and subsequently fired a pistol at a person, there would be sufficient grounds for a murder charge.

"Stop or I'll shoot" is acceptable as there is no stated intent to kill.

All the chef had to do is say the wrong thing in a fit of anger and he'd completely destroy his chances of a successful self-defence plea.

"I was angry when I said it, I didn't really mean it" wouldn't hold water in court - the expectation is that we are to be in control of our temper, especially in a situation like that.

Not saying that's how it happened but it is plausible and would fit in with the initial charge, and the acceptance of a plea bargain:

"You go to court, the prosecution will tear you to shreds, better to admit to a lesser charge".

[davereid]

Karl deFresne of the "Dominion" has been stealing my posts... or maybe lots of middle ground kiwis feel like me.

Its in todays paper, so not yet online so I had to copy it by hand sorry for typos.

"A young chef is going home from work late at night on a Christchurch Bus. He is by himself and mindng his on business. A group of young thug start harassing him be cause he happens to wear a red sweatshirt.. he is spat on and a cigarette lihter is thrown at him. The bus security video reportedly shows hin cowering and frightened. As the bullies leave the bus, the 21 year old chef is punched in the mouth. He takes out his chefs knife...and stabs one of his tormentors"

Then he comments about the chef lacking the presence of mind to react proportionally to the situation.

"Something seems to be serously wrong here. If we apply the same rule of proportionality to sentancing, isnt two years jail also "over the top" for someone who wasn't looking for trouble and merely retaliated against an unprovoked assault?

And isn't there a danger that if the police insist on prosecuting peole for exercising their right of self defence that the thugs will become even bolder

Astonishingly the police originally charged Hill with attempte murder. You may well wonder whose side they are on.

You might also wonder whether the law of proportionate response applies where a man armed with a hammer is shot dead by a man with a Glock pistol"
"