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Thread: Fair call for a barrier but cheese grater?

  1. #136
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    At a minimum I would like to see the lower half of the barriers filled in with something which would stop me sliding through. This would probably still allow larger vehicles to be grabbed by the upper half of the barrier.

    Am I right or wrong?

  2. #137
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    This has become such an emotive issue. Simple physics holds all the answers anyone could need as to whether the cheesecutters should stay or go.....
    Scenario - hold one of your arms up, take a meat cleaver in the other hand, hit your arm with the flat of the cleaver, try it straight on and at an angle. NOW try the same with edge of the cleaver. Doesn't even have to be done 'fast'.
    It's all about lbs/in2.
    Can't argue with that.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    A case in point - Katana 750 doing 230km/h on a dead straight road had a front tyre blow, swerved into the path of an oncoming car (the only one on the road). The rider managed to almost jump the car and got away with only broken legs on the upper windscreen. A couple of months in traction and he was riding again. Doubtful he would've survived if there was a wire barrier.
    230km/h? Oncoming traffic? We want him to survive why?

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by imdying View Post
    230km/h? Oncoming traffic? We want him to survive why?
    So we can slag him off on teh interweb in person.

  5. #140
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    Mmmm... seems like an unusal choice of an example of why to dump the barriers.... I mean, if I was Transit, and you came and said 'Speeding motorcyclists die when they hit them', I'd laugh you out of my office.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    And then there was the much publicised (on KB) event a few months ago when a drunk driver crossed the centre-line of the road and hit a pack of motorcyclists and killed two.
    A good chance a cheese-cutter would have prevented THAT event being as tragic as it was.

    Balance grasshopper, balance....
    Logic grasshopper, logic.

    Installing WRBs so people can safely drive drunk without causing head-ons is not going to work.

    To make any difference to the odds of that crash repeating you would have to divide EVERY road in NZ with barriers which would significantly increase the odds of motorcycles being involved in WRB collisions far outweighing and lives saved caused by drivers (drunk or otherwise) crossing the centreline.

    Policing and appropriately punishing drink driving would be the logical solution but heaven forbid we attacked the root cause of a problem in NZ.

    To illustrate my point I see Miss 11 drink driving convictions (plus numerous driving while disqualified) just got busted AGAIN at close to double the limit. Does she have to kill someone before she's put in prison? Oh wait... Even when you kill someone driving drunk or recklessly a prison sentence is only 50/50. No wonder people keep driving drunk.. There's no real penalty!

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    Balance grasshopper, balance....
    I totally agree. My opinion is that cheese graters put things out of balance. There is a viable alternative. Even covering the posts as they've done in France would be an improvement.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  8. #143
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    hi all,just sayin that the news of the poor guy in papakura has spread all around the world and all us irish bikers are doin our bit to get these fookin wire barriers removed from the roads.they are still sticking them in over here,but finally there is enough sh*t been kicked up that people are being heard.its sick that it takes a tragic death of a two wheeled brother to get it through to the MAN.
    condolances to the family and friends of Daniel,the world is thinking of you all!!

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by discotex View Post
    Even when you kill someone driving drunk or recklessly a prison sentence is only 50/50. No wonder people keep driving drunk.. There's no real penalty!
    A point I've been putting to my head-honcho in Capital City. (And more than once)

    And it frustrates me too matey.
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
    " Life is not a rehearsal, it's as happy or miserable as you want to make it"

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by discotex View Post
    Logic grasshopper, logic.

    Installing WRBs so people can safely drive drunk without causing head-ons is not going to work.
    THAT is not a valid argument, sure the guy was pissed - but not ALL idiots crossing the centreline are pissed, there's even been cases of motorcyclists being killed by another one crossing the centreline stone cold sober....
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 14,000 posts...........
    " Life is not a rehearsal, it's as happy or miserable as you want to make it"

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by imdying View Post
    230km/h? Oncoming traffic? We want him to survive why?
    Fair point. I too think this was stupid. It does, however, illustrate how survivable a head-on can be. Even at legal speeds WRSBs will kill and maim.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    THAT is not a valid argument, sure the guy was pissed - but not ALL idiots crossing the centreline are pissed, there's even been cases of motorcyclists being killed by another one crossing the centreline stone cold sober....
    I think you've missed the point.

    I think the odds of meeting a drunk driver on my side of the road without barriers would be lower than my chances of getting cut up by a barrier if every road in NZ had WRSBs.

    I take it you never want to overtake anyone ever again? Imagine the rush to get past slower traffic when there is a lane available.

    Something else that I don't think has been mentioned yet - What about barriers that have gaps to allow for side roads? On SH1 past Rangiriri there's a stretch of road with a WRSB on either side of the lane. If some idiot decides to pull out right in front of me I've got nowhere to go.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    THAT is not a valid argument, sure the guy was pissed - but not ALL idiots crossing the centreline are pissed, there's even been cases of motorcyclists being killed by another one crossing the centreline stone cold sober....
    Absolutely agree. That's my point. As many (if not most) head-on collisions are one-offs with respect to location you can't predict where to put the barriers.

    Unless you can predict where people will cross the centreline you have to cover the whole country with WRBs which is clearly not good plan.

    I'm the first to admit that there are some clear black spots where lane division is needed but lets make sure the barrier installed is safe i.e. don't use WRBs unless modified to make them safe for bikes or much more preferably use concrete.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by discotex View Post
    Policing and appropriately punishing drink driving would be the logical solution but heaven forbid we attacked the root cause of a problem in NZ.

    To illustrate my point I see Miss 11 drink driving convictions (plus numerous driving while disqualified) just got busted AGAIN at close to double the limit.
    To deviate briefly, I'm starting to think that maybe these people get drunk, then no longer think about the reason not to drive. If they're liable to make such bad decisions when they're drunk, they need to be banned from drinking.

    Richard

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwh View Post
    To deviate briefly, I'm starting to think that maybe these people get drunk, then no longer think about the reason not to drive. If they're liable to make such bad decisions when they're drunk, they need to be banned from drinking.

    Richard
    Unfortunately, unless you want to go down the route of issuing everyone in the country an electronic picture ID without which you can't buy alcohol, and back it up with signature / fingerprint recognition, plus introduce laws preventing the supply or sale of alcohol to anyone not in possession of said ID, it'd be very difficult to regulate and enforce. Even with it, it's difficult to do. Case in point - how many disqualified drivers are on our roads daily? How many cars without WOFs and regos on our roads daily?

    Whilst in a utopian society such recidivist offenders would be banned from drinking and banned from driving to life - with those conditions enforced - in the real world, it's impossible to police.

    Still, please don't let that stop anyone starting a cop-bashing thread - we haven't had one of those for ten minutes or so.

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