Fired/removed

[doc]

this can be done on ATNR night for all those that hold this as a important Auckland showing there collectiveness on this issue.A mass email to spank maybe or maybe a petition what do you all think.

Then we could form a committee, pay subs, and appoint a leader. No thanks
KB'r is not a Democracy.

[Grahameeboy]

Then we could form a committee, pay subs, and appoint a leader. No thanks
KB'r is not a Democracy.

But does KB need to be a democracy??

[Grahameeboy]

has someone hit a chord..??? You seem to be pretty wound up for someone who seems to be disengaged from it all, merely following someone else's rules...!


Personally i have no idea how you and 4 of the 'other' mods came to be in that position. farcical really.


RULES... are STATEMENTS.. which are interpreted by people. Now who does the interpreting is paramount... think about this.

She doesn't seem too wound up to me......she is just saying how she feels...........no more than you young Boomer.........

[Grahameeboy]

If you feel you live in the best place why are you so bitter? Oh yeah KB was created in Auckland by Spank - So an Aucklander gave you KB

The headache with clubs is that they are full of rules..... which seems to be the increasing case here. Rules for the sake of rules are a bit boring.

She is just saying how it is from her point of view...............bitter is a bit strong...............

[Paul in NZ]

Technically, he is not banned. Indeed , even The Dover I think is not banned. But the distinction between being banned and having it made plain that the ruling elite of the site want you gone, consider you unwelcome, and think you should "Fuck off", is a very technical one indeed.

Seriously.... Why is everyone placing their own personal agendas on this issue... Frosty is a great guy - popular and he has many many fiends here. There are glowing testaments to his many good deeds which adds up to a pretty decent human being.... Thats great - hes lucky to have such caring friends. But - That might not qualify him as a fabulous moderator of this site... No one is 100% good or 100% bad... Clint Rickards has done some very good things and is highly regarded by some (not me) people (still) but he didn't follow the rules and he paid the price (well technically the tax payer paid)....

This is a mod thing. I'm just guessing but the team had a parting of the ways, Tony is upset and made it public..... Fair enough - his call but ultimately not a good one, perhaps that knock on the head has altered his judgement (Just kidding Tony) Why turn it into ww3? If Tony says lets fight - you need to decide if you want to support him but he is saying to cool it... So

[Taz]

Well I think frosty was always to good to be a moderator of this site. Leave it to the dicks - Frosty. There's plenty of them here.

[Maha]

If you think it should be – pack up your wee bags, dry your wee eyes and lift up your wee chins and go find another site with another set of moderators to bag.
End of story.

Not sure you wanna offer that up as an option, your request may just come true, foot extraction can be a rather messy job! And no, the story has yet to begin.

Her B4. Can I ask if you were given access to the e mails and Private messages sent to Frosty ?

Meh, you mean those ones that............

[MotoGirl]

for all those interested about getting Frosty back as a moderator may have to happen this can be done on ATNR night for all those that hold this as a important Auckland showing there collectiveness on this issue.A mass email to spank maybe or maybe a petition what do you all think.

Maybe it's this type of behaviour that made SpankMe appoint mods in the first place? He doesn't want or need to deal with this type of bullshit.

Even if you did do said petition, who're you going to bitch at if Spank tells you where to stick it? This isn't a democracy so HTFU.

P.S. Bitch about this all you want. I won't see it because I'll be out riding

[MSTRS:Me]

Could I ask a simple question? Why have a lot of posts been removed to that red forum?
I have read them and other than one or two none are off topic.

I note the names of some of those posters who had posts moved...

Before you go ahead with that I would remind you both that publishing a pm without the senders permission is a clear breach of the site rules

One question I would also ask, is everyone very certain that they want a reply from the mod team on why he was removed

We do want to know. It is obvious that no-one of us is comfortable with the lies and deceit which seem to surround this current issue.
As far as the 'permission' thing goes, I guess you are not about to give that for the PMs you sent ?? Which would still leave the situation one-sided and unresolved.

[Swoop]

- unless you post is about building bridges or improving things - for mercies sake let this go.

It has already been suggested. Replace ALL mods. Not the junior ones, not the senior ones - ALL mods. The disease has spread.

This is a mod thing.

Can't argue with that.

I'm just guessing but the team had a parting of the ways,

Hmm. Jump or be pushed. Yeah, right "a parting of the ways".


Right. Going off to spend the day riding.

[Unit:Me]

would you want to give any sort of advice if you were in his position? if you get fired from a job do you still go back and help out the staff even though your boss is a cunt?

No. Mine was labelled redundancy, then staff were ringing me at home wanting information

[Jorja]

The bigger picture in all of this that no one has really mentioned is the fact that the kiwibiker trackdays are gone because of this.
Yes he did them off his own back, but they were primarily for kiwibiker members. How many of the members here can say they are better riders because of it! You only have to ask the 85 riders at the last one to see how much these events will be missed.
There are several behind the scenes elements that make it impossible for him to run them without being a moderator. Even I don't know half of what goes into one and I have helped out at the last 3.

There has been alot of talk about how he broke the rules constantly but that was according to one senior member and NOT the site owner.

[Mom]

The job of the moderator is to support the rules of site as originally defined by SpankMe, and implement them as and when required.
End of story.

Agreed! But, these rules should be fairly applied.

The moderator team does not have a case to answer to...


End of story.

Are you sure about that? I always thought that there were 2 levels of Moderation on KB. Are you privy to emails/PM's from Smods that may or may not have been sent?

End of story.

Somehow I doubt that it is the end of the story.

[rwh]

The bigger picture in all of this that no one has really mentioned is the fact that the kiwibiker trackdays are gone because of this.

Isn't that because Frosty hasn't mentioned it? I don't remember him announcing any such thing; are you doing so for him now?

Richard

[rainman]

This is really not that difficult an issue.

When people voluntarily spend a lot of time on something it is usually a good indication that they value it. It may be "just the Internet" and "not as important as going for a ride", but still relatively valuable. Rep points and post counts and other such obviously silly measures serve to reinforce people's sense of attachment to a forum such as this, which increases the value it has for them. As a very wise former manager of mine once said, "People just want to belong". Looking at Frosty's original posting, he clearly feels aggrieved, and has lost something he values.

Bikers and a curious lot. On the one hand we have this rebel-without-a-cause, I-don't-need-anything-but-a-good-road independence, but on the other hand we're under siege (cagers trying to kill us, govt valuing our lives at zero, family and friends calling us temporary NZers, etc) so we kinda (maybe just a little bit) like being part of a community. We like group rides, getting together at a mates house to work on a mechanical problem, rallies... etc. And thus we form closer relationships than, say, model-aircraft collecting groups - so have a higher level of empathy when one of us is mistreated. (Have a look at Str8 Jackets post about nearly being mugged - there were people here offering vigilante justice within 30 mins!). So those of us who like and respect Frosty (which seems to be a well deservedly large number) share some of his feeling of being aggrieved.

Having mods is arguably a necessary evil for a large community - because some people are just tossers - but heavy-handed, inscrutable, generally unreasonable moderation (they call it moderation for a reason, remember) creates division, makes us feel like we don't belong, that there are another group we need to rally and defend against - and the worst thing is they are us, fellow bikers. Therefore attacks on mods are more vicious than they would be toward outsiders. The mods, therefore, have to do extra work to control this effect, and minimise the division between the mods and the proles, to make sure they aren't the enemy in the eyes of the 99% of reasonable people here.

If not? Well, there is a risk here, that has been pointed out by others, of the site becoming so divided by driving away valued and valuable contributors, that it crumbles to a shadow of it's former glory. What controls get put in place to avoid this are for SpankMe to determine, if he even wants to - he's the site god after all - but that doesn't mean he'll get it right, as far as the majority (or even a large minority) are concerned, which will lead to more defections. And more "brand dilution" for KB as alternative sites become more credible in the collective mindspace. It's happened before, over and over, shows, sites and groups "jumping the shark". Internet success is hard to do, and network effects are hard to predict, but the best outcome is generally achieved with the fewest, clearest and most reasonable rules. But that's a separate discussion.

The Frosty being fired issue is now in the public arena (sadly along with the whole bike sale dispute thread). Leaving it undiscussed and behind closed doors is indeed an option, but will just reinforce the issues above and reduce the value many people attach to KB. I wouldn't choose that path, if it were up to me.

(climbs off soapbox)