Fired/removed

[NotaGoth]

Oh, that's right, the old, "Moderators have to be perfect and never react to stuff that would get you a size 13 boot wedged up your arse if you said it to someone's face".

What bullshit.

You've wasted a shit load of space on KB, sweety, and been allowed to get away with it.

Oh sweetcheeks who hasn't

[Paul in NZ]

You know - things are making a bit of sense to me now and I'm utterly horrified at peoples behaviour. If you read this thread with an open and unbiased mind - slot in the bits you know - and think about it without reacting - questioning everything and everyone you think you know... it beomes a bit clearer, certainly the clues are all there.

Having said that...... Having made your decision, what will you do?

Will you people stop before the site is destroyed? Perhaps not this time.....

Secondly - do I care any more? No - I'm disgusted and at this time i don't have the energy for watching this sadness.

Fill yer boots you lot. I've got better things to do.

[Kiwifire72]

a woman (if this is the case) who has created an alias to post .. why do they not feel comfortable posting under their real login ???

As I said to B4 do you know for a fact that this person is not who they say they are???????

[James Deuce]

We, the unwashed masses, would like transparency in regards to the sacking of Frosty as a mod, the pm's back and forth between Frosty and the said moderator who "did the deed".
Frosty feels, rightly or wrongly, that this decision was unfair. We, who suppport Frosty as a "thoroughly good bloke", would also like to know what happened.
I would like to know that my faith in and respect for Frosty is not ill placed.
Withoiut this information, all we are left with is supposition, suspicion, ill feeling and taking liberties with the truth, whatever that may be.
Seriously, Brett, we feel as contributing persons to this site, that this needs to be on a need to know basis....and "we " need to know that the mods are decent..actually most of them are...and human and have the best interests of this site and the people who make it up, at heart.
Right now it is looking pretty dodgy..and you know that I have never been in to mod bashing, for mod bashing's sake.

Errr - how come I keep getting told it's only the Internet and I shouldn't get so cross when things happen that I object to then?

I know what you are saying, and agree with the intent 100%, but the majority of KB's membership will be going, "Eh? It's only the Internet, why is she so upset. For that matter why is Frosty so upset?"

Guarantee it.

[chanceyy]

As I said to B4 do you know for a fact that this person is not who they say they are???????

dunno if its female or male .. a newbie roaring into a thread full of brim & fire methinks not...

so strong chances its someone who has created an alias ... & the name a teaser .. yeah well enough said really ....

[jrandom]

[YOUTUBE]HNTxr2NJHa0[/YOUTUBE]

[ATEZZR]

[QUOTE=Hitcher;1300837]

[QUOTE=Hitcher;1300876]

Apart from being appallingly spelt, that is just a pathetic attempt to play the man, rather than the ball.

No i thought that was joni job and she only gets them out when its time to play.





And as far as your threats go just shows how much of a big man you are.





Also i dont have balls i'm all women would joni like some lessons

Hope this explains

[NotaGoth]

dunno if its female or male .. a newbie roaring into a thread full of brim & fire methinks not...

so strong chances its someone who has created an alias ... & the name a teaser .. yeah well enough said really ....

Join date? 2006?

[Swoop]

Join date? 2006?

We're fucked! This member has invented time travel!

[Grahameeboy]

Well things have certainly been busy here since Friday!

And there is a bunch of shit getting thrown around, in typical KB style, regarding the "sacking" of Frosty.

Once again much of the "discussion" relating to this matter has been one-sided -- in Frosty's favour. And there has also been a lot of crap thrown at Moderators -- Joni in particular.

Until a few months ago I had the privilege to be a Senior Moderator. As such I was privy to some discussions that other Moderators (like I am now) and Kiwi Biker members don't get to see. Trust me when I say it's pretty ugly at times in the back room.

One of the things that Senior Moderators get involved in is feedback about the performance of Moderators, and they also have a range of tools that allow what Mods do to be observed and quantified. There are some great Moderators on this site, some who are still learning the dark art of moderation, a very few whose performance has been sub-optimal and a couple who have caused no end of trouble.

Another point that needs to be kept in mind here is to disassociate what Frosty does outside KB, such as worthy work organising track days and the like, and what he does (or does not do) on KB as a Moderator.

Back in my Senior Moderator days, I think I was privy to more complaints about Frosty's "performance" than all of the other Moderators together. To piously claim that his demise was the result of how he handled just one post is a nonsense. It may have been the last straw, but in my opinion, the Senior Moderators have tolerated Frosty's peccadilloes for about a year longer than they should have, probably sensing that a backlash like this would be a result. While they were right in guessing how the site may react, they also did the right thing by removing an extremely troublesome Moderator.

And as for Mod-bashing, and singling out Joni for special attention, I think that that is just symptomatic of a huge degree of immaturity from some contributors. Joni deserves better.

It's really hard finding competent and dedicated people who are prepared to volunteer large parts of their lives to keep this site alive and ticking. The brutal and inane displays of petulance at times like this make it that much harder to retain the talent pool we currently enjoy. Those of you who have been engaging in mindless displays of Mod-slagging should be ashamed of yourselves.

Thanks for explaining a bit more Mr H.

I think the important thing to grasp is that Frosty's 'sacking' as a Mod is no reflection of his personality and all that he does. I suspect he just does not suit the qualifications of a Mod. It may only be an internet site but it has to be run as a united front whether this is popular with members or not.

Being a Mod has nothing to do with how long you have held a licence for, how many posts you have etc as this are not relevant to being able to apply rules etc.

If we found out the precise details would it in the long run make any difference. Possibly not now and it may even promote more crap which we don't really need and it is really Frosty's battle not ours......bit like voting for a Govt, at end of day it is just a different bunch of people and in the grand scheme of things not a lot of real difference except it gives people something to moan about.....which happens a lot here.

I think everyone has made their points. Yes I do hear a lot of anti-Joni stories, however, there will be equal numbers if not more that are pro-Joni like some people think I am Gay or a Plonker.........it's life, we cannot please everyone and to be honest unless you have actually met Joni (sorry to mention you again) you cannot really make an informed opinion....I did a bloody good job of convincing people that I was Gay..........despite being seperated and having shared custody of Nats yet people seem to overlook this...well just trying to make a point.

I think we expect Mods to be unemotional and for those who have experienced bad feedback from a Mod, maybe you need to look at how you approached the Mod...it does take 2 to tango, but only one hand to masterbate................mmm, I think that is what I am trying to say....

[El Dopa]

Hitcher, with the very greatest of respect, I find your reply disengeneous in the extreme.

Until a few months ago I had the privilege to be a Senior Moderator. As such I was privy to some discussions that other Moderators (like I am now) and Kiwi Biker members don't get to see. Trust me when I say it's pretty ugly at times in the back room..

Of this I have no doubt. There are a dozen or so shitheads on this forum who I really wish would just fuck off and die. Either that or take a crash course in how to live in a civilised society.

But this is 'a site for all new zealand motorcyclists'. I have to take the rough with the very rough.

Another point that needs to be kept in mind here is to disassociate what Frosty does outside KB, such as worthy work organising track days and the like, and what he does (or does not do) on KB as a Moderator..

Utterly impossible. As has been pointed out before, the difference between this forum, and a yank forum or global forum is the amount of real world interaction available to the members. It ain't just about the cyberspace in this case.

Back in my Senior Moderator days, I think I was privy to more complaints about Frosty's "performance" than all of the other Moderators together. To piously claim that his demise was the result of how he handled just one post is a nonsense. It may have been the last straw, but in my opinion, the Senior Moderators have tolerated Frosty's peccadilloes for about a year longer than they should have, probably sensing that a backlash like this would be a result. While they were right in guessing how the site may react, they also did the right thing by removing an extremely troublesome Moderator.


It's really hard finding competent and dedicated people who are prepared to volunteer large parts of their lives to keep this site alive and ticking.

As I believe I have pointed out before, I have no doubt that there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff that goes on that I and all the other non-mod members are blissfully unaware of.

I do not envy the mods. I don't want the job, and I doubt I could do the job.

But, but, but......the hands which govern best govern lightest.

In the last year or so, the philosophy of this site has moved from 'softlee softlee we'll mod the monkeys' to: "wallop! don't do that or I'll smack you again."

When I lived in the UK, there was a big annual festival called the Notting Hill Carnival in the centre of London that I attended a couple of times.

Always a policing nightmare, but over the 30-odd years that the cops had been policing it, they had worked out that strictly enforcing the absolute letter of the law, and arresting petty little crims for petty little crimes can and did lead to large-scale rioting.

So now they sit back in the background and turn a blind eye to the small stuff: weed being openly smoked, public urination, unlicensed alcohol sales, sound systems too loud for too long etc, etc.

If anything gets really out of hand, they move in quick, grab the offender nice and quietly, and deal with it all nice and calmly off to one side.

I'm sure I don't need to spell it out to you any clearer, but I will for the benefit of those at the back:

Heavy-handed policing leads to upset masses and and increased danger of riot precipitation.

Hands-off policing generally leads to trouble-free events.

[NotaGoth]

We're fucked! This member has invented time travel!

Wow, thats so amazing

[Kiwifire72]

We're fucked! This member has invented time travel!

Well said
just because one has only posted 4 times does not mean a bloody thing

[Hitcher]

Frosty feels, rightly or wrongly, that this decision was unfair. We, who suppport Frosty as a "thoroughly good bloke", would also like to know what happened.

I have no doubt that Frosty believes that this is "unfair". But as I said earlier, this action was not the result of just one event. It has been a long time in the gestation -- well over a year by my recall -- and the matter has been raised with Frosty on several occasions I can remember when I was amongst the ranks of the Senior Moderators. I have no knowledge of any discussions that the Seniors may have had since I left, but it is pretty clear that this has exercised them to a point that they believed that they had no other course of action available to them.

For the purposes of responding to this thread, I am not going to judge Frosty other than as a Moderator. Whether or not is a "thoroughly good bloke" in a broader context is not really relevant to his unwillingness/inability to moderate even-handedly and in accordance with this site's rules and guidelines.

Your Senior Moderators are also "thoroughly good blokes" who, if they are to be faulted, probably cut Frosty too much slack for too long.

It's worth remembering too that Kiwi Biker is not a democracy. Moderator appointments are by invitation, and continued existence as a Moderator (when not at a Moderator's personal discretion) is based on performance and usually after considerable angst-ridden discussion, given that most Mods are generally well-regarded by some site members.

While I understand your and others' concern about Frosty's moderating demise, whether or not they decide to post a detailed forensic analysis of their decision is completely in the hands of the Senior Moderators.

[rainman]

One of the things that Senior Moderators get involved in is feedback about the performance of Moderators, and they also have a range of tools that allow what Mods do to be observed and quantified. There are some great Moderators on this site, some who are still learning the dark art of moderation, a very few whose performance has been sub-optimal and a couple who have caused no end of trouble.

Back in my Senior Moderator days, I think I was privy to more complaints about Frosty's "performance" than all of the other Moderators together. To piously claim that his demise was the result of how he handled just one post is a nonsense. It may have been the last straw, but in my opinion, the Senior Moderators have tolerated Frosty's peccadilloes for about a year longer than they should have, probably sensing that a backlash like this would be a result. While they were right in guessing how the site may react, they also did the right thing by removing an extremely troublesome Moderator.

Perhaps the problem is that the performance standards that the moderators are acting on when taking decisions (like firing mods) are not available for all to see. If this was a real job (as opposed to a thankless one ), there would be a role description, KPIs, the whole shebang. But in the absence of even some vague guidelines that all can see, the only people who can judge if the mods are being reasonable are the mods themselves - hardly an ideal situation. Who watches the watchers? Perhaps SpankMe, but that makes for a Management Structure, which is unlikely to sit well with a community of motorcyclists. And, as I said in my earlier post - the community health here is less good than a few days ago. Which may give cause for alarm in sensible minds, or not.

(I searched for mod responsibilities and found "to keep the site running smoothly, to protect the reputation of the site and its owner, to maintain order and ensure the site's standards of behaviour are adhered to" but that doesn't seem to be specific enough to fire someone. Not to mention the "standards" are a bit vague, judging by the posts that have gone to PD in this thread alone).

Now, as some of the proles half suspect the mods are power-mad and abusing their authority (see my earlier post for a view of why this may be so), events like firing Frosty with no scrutiny of the decision draw the ire of all or most of his friends and admirers, and reinforce the view that the mods are power-mad... etc. I believe it's called a vicious cycle (or is that the M109R, maybe it's a circle?)...

Perhaps the mods are taking things a wee bit seriously? After all, as us proles are frequently reminded, it's just an Internet site. Do you really need all of these rules, and firing people for poor performance, and associated shit?

Once again much of the "discussion" relating to this matter has been one-sided -- in Frosty's favour.

Well, yerssss, no-one else from "the other side" is participating in the discussion, are they?