Top cop says bikers are incompetant and pissed

[janno]

I have been told more than once by experienced riders (read old farts who have been there, done that) that bikes now can be ridden a hell of a lot faster with a hell of a lot less rider input and skill required, so when the shit does hit the fan the inexperienced rider hasn't a clue how to get themselves out of trouble.

As I consider myself an inexperienced rider, I can't comment on the validity but I respected these guys skill levels (ex top level racers etc) so I think they would know what they are on about.

Any other experienced riders agree/disagree? And why?

[MSTRS:Me]

beware of all these cars, cops and campers on the wrong side of the road.

And cheese cutter. I'm seeing a trend here. If it starts with 'c' it's gunna cause you grief....

[McJim]

And cheese cutter. I'm seeing a trend here. If it starts with 'c' it's gunna cause you grief....

Well that's the last time I lick anything beginning with 'C' then!

[doc]

I have been told more than once by experienced riders (read old farts who have been there, done that) that bikes now can be ridden a hell of a lot faster with a hell of a lot less rider input and skill required, so when the shit does hit the fan the inexperienced rider hasn't a clue how to get themselves out of trouble.

Any other experienced riders agree/disagree? And why?

Then

Firstly you had to be able to get it started first, balancing when pissed trying to kick start a Norton is a test in its self. Those large bottles under your jacket use to ride up under you ribcage and limit your swing.

No helmet made you so much aware, you could hear the siren, the lights were just pretty.

The magic ton was for the big stuff. When your boots touched the ground cornering, the sparks told you you were there.

Now
Your first bike out performs the best of them ,tyres are big as cars tyres. Kickstarts are a museum piece. Radar gadgets etc makes you invinsible. Your'e going so much faster, when something scrapes your in the shit.

[Ocean1]

I have been told more than once by experienced riders (read old farts who have been there, done that) that bikes now can be ridden a hell of a lot faster with a hell of a lot less rider input and skill required, so when the shit does hit the fan the inexperienced rider hasn't a clue how to get themselves out of trouble.

As I consider myself an inexperienced rider, I can't comment on the validity but I respected these guys skill levels (ex top level racers etc) so I think they would know what they are on about.

Any other experienced riders agree/disagree? And why?

First, get the facts. I haven't seen a single reference to current statistics in this thread. And no, I don't have them to hand either. I do recall however recently reading that the group in question, (bornagainriders) in the UK represent the lowest risk group. Those of you paying insurance might also be aware that bornagainriders pay less in insurance premiums, the older the better.

J, ignoring the "experienced" bit for a moment, yes, I agree. The phenomenon applies more to new riders though, than those with a modicum of experience. So you'd expect the numbers to show peak accidents in the newly licenced and those recently upgrading from a 250 to a liter sprotbike. I suspect that's exactly the case.

As for the effects of a mid-ride beer? Well, it can't help, but I'd say the more... mature guys are probably more able to moderate their on-road behaviour accordingly. Sound plausable?

[Coyote]

I'm not sure I'm very experienced yet, but I did manage to narrowly miss smacking into a truck that cut across my lane. Think that requires some skill doesn't it?

[Ocean1]

I'm not sure I'm very experienced yet, but I did manage to narrowly miss smacking into a truck that cut across my lane. Think that requires some skill doesn't it?

Depends. How many dozen had you downed? JD chasers?

[janno]

The middle aged bikers are the highest percentage of motorcycle accident and death rates in Queensland - I had to research the 2006 road toll figures for a feature I was writing.

BUT!! There was no way of telling how long some of them had been away from riding (as their licences and possible bike registrations during that time weren't correlated), it was purely speculation from the bike shops as to who they were selling to.

[candor]

Actually it's not drinking and riding that he points the finger at, it's drinking riding and crashing. So the question is not how many bikers do or do not have a drink, it's how many have a drink and then crash.
.

27 of the 35 riders killed in 2006 had alcohol. But the good news is they mostly weren't pissed.

1 had a BAC between 121-150mg per litre blood
1 had a BAC 150-200 (double the limit)
1 had a 201-250
24 were BAC 0-31

This level of the 24 wouldn't normally be dangerous unless the BAC was mixed with DAK then you'd be similar in risk to being double the alcohol limit (45x norrmal). NZ does have high rates of driver fatalities with very low alcohol + dak.

0-31 ='s one drink had within the last 2 hours for any but the biggest of males (who might have managed 2.

Few obvious effects from sole use; slight intensification of mood and no feeling of relaxation has set in at that level.

So under 10% of killed riders are officially pissed versus just over 20% of car drivers per the motor vehicle crashes in NZ 2006 book (M.O.T.). The ages of the 3 drunk riders are not provided. Panic is coming from big huge spike in crashes across the board this year. Huge road safety bungling.

In week 46 (2007) the control charts showed 320 fatal crashes when 250 was the expected goal given heavily ramped up enforcement. It's a failed model - but subjects other than speed and alcohol (and a narrow approach to those) are banned.., hence the ramblings re bikers stopping in at cafes to get pickled. They're trying to blame the victims and scare people off bikes in order they won't miss toll targets (KPI) so bad as currently are?!?.

[Coyote]

Depends. How many dozen had you downed? JD chasers?

Not at that stage. If I did get hit would that make me an alcoholic?

[jafar]

27 of the 35 riders killed in 2006 had alcohol. But the good news is they mostly weren't pissed.

1 had a BAC between 121-150mg per litre blood
1 had a BAC 150-200 (double the limit)
1 had a 201-250
24 were BAC 0-31

This level of the 24 wouldn't normally be dangerous unless the BAC was mixed with DAK then you'd be similar in risk to being double the alcohol limit (45x norrmal). NZ does have high rates of driver fatalities with very low alcohol + dak.

0-31 ='s one drink had within the last 2 hours for any but the biggest of males (who might have managed 2.

Few obvious effects from sole use; slight intensification of mood and no feeling of relaxation has set in at that level.

So under 10% of killed riders are officially pissed versus just over 20% of car drivers per the motor vehicle crashes in NZ 2006 book (M.O.T.). The ages of the 3 drunk riders are not provided. Panic is coming from big huge spike in crashes across the board this year. Huge road safety bungling.

In week 46 (2007) the control charts showed 320 fatal crashes when 250 was the expected goal given heavily ramped up enforcement. It's a failed model - but subjects other than speed and alcohol (and a narrow approach to those) are banned.., hence the ramblings re bikers stopping in at cafes to get pickled. They're trying to blame the victims and scare people off bikes in order they won't miss toll targets (KPI) so bad as currently are?!?.

So 25 of the 35 had a minor amount to drink,this would lead to the assumption that stopping @ a cafe on the coro loop & having a beer would be of benefit

[Genestho]

It'll be interesting to see the reply...

In a meeting I had with ACC, I was informed that the "born again" (I cant actually remember how she put it) riders are statistically the highest with Motorcycle Accidents
I didnt ask for the numbers as it wasnt what I was there for.

Lets not forget that 75% of Motorcyclist accidents are caused by Motorists.

I have been asked to do an interview with a Radio Station in regards to BADD and how to advise Motorists to watch out for Motorcyclists on the roads.
I hope I represent the Community with what I say, any input is welcomed.

Ive had some massive near misses with my hubby riding and he was an accomplished rider.
He saved us a few times from tossers not watching out or looking in their mirrors.
He saved possibly our lives on the way to Paeroa Street Racing 6 weeks before he and his mates were murdered.

A twit u turned in front of us in the middle of a group of bikes we were cruising with and the Guzzi had its back wheel off the ground, we slid sideways, back wheel came off the ground again, then we slid slowly to a stop - upright about half a metre before we Tboned into said twit.
I wanted to stop and bollock the Motorist, but Leon tapped my thigh and said "Dont stress - lets just get to Paeroa"

(I dont really know why I explained that - I guess its the accomplished bit, the bummer is if we had crashed, the bike wouldve been off the road and he may be still alive today, and maybe I wouldnt've been)


I dont really know what Leo is trying to establish considering the accidents were caused by Motorists (Ive got that right?) in my short experience with the Media SOME seem to like a good fiddling with the facts.

At the end of the day, you cant do stuff all if you havent got a clear view of the road with a car on your side.

I stand at Leon's accident site, and I still cant understand how they didnt make it, they had so much clear road, they shouldve been able to get around Mr 4x convicted drunk driver and unlicensed Looser.
But they only 3 inches of skidmark on their tyres.
They were screwed.

[Usarka]

27 of the 35 riders killed in 2006 had alcohol. But the good news is they mostly weren't pissed.

1 had a BAC between 121-150mg per litre blood
1 had a BAC 150-200 (double the limit)
1 had a 201-250
24 were BAC 0-31

This level of the 24 wouldn't normally be dangerous unless the BAC was mixed with DAK then you'd be similar in risk to being double the alcohol limit (45x norrmal). NZ does have high rates of driver fatalities with very low alcohol + dak.

0-31 ='s one drink had within the last 2 hours for any but the biggest of males (who might have managed 2.

Few obvious effects from sole use; slight intensification of mood and no feeling of relaxation has set in at that level.

So under 10% of killed riders are officially pissed versus just over 20% of car drivers per the motor vehicle crashes in NZ 2006 book (M.O.T.). The ages of the 3 drunk riders are not provided. Panic is coming from big huge spike in crashes across the board this year. Huge road safety bungling.

In week 46 (2007) the control charts showed 320 fatal crashes when 250 was the expected goal given heavily ramped up enforcement. It's a failed model - but subjects other than speed and alcohol (and a narrow approach to those) are banned.., hence the ramblings re bikers stopping in at cafes to get pickled. They're trying to blame the victims and scare people off bikes in order they won't miss toll targets (KPI) so bad as currently are?!?.

I fail to grasp your point. are you suggesting that the 24 riders were stoned aswell?

Is it not possible that a reading of less than 31 is attributable to something other than an alcoholic beverage?

I personally know one of those riders and know for a fact he didnt have anything to drink that day. that makes it 27 out of 34. sounds either far fetched, or very disturbing to me.

[Ocean1]

The middle aged bikers are the highest percentage of motorcycle accident and death rates in Queensland - I had to research the 2006 road toll figures for a feature I was writing.

BUT!! There was no way of telling how long some of them had been away from riding (as their licences and possible bike registrations during that time weren't correlated), it was purely speculation from the bike shops as to who they were selling to.

They are in the UK too, overall, but they're the largest group, the corrected falaty rate was lower than the mean, by quite a bit.

27 of the 35 riders killed in 2006 had alcohol. But the good news is they mostly weren't pissed.

1 had a BAC between 121-150mg per litre blood
1 had a BAC 150-200 (double the limit)
1 had a 201-250
24 were BAC 0-31

This level of the 24 wouldn't normally be dangerous unless the BAC was mixed with DAK then you'd be similar in risk to being double the alcohol limit (45x norrmal). NZ does have high rates of driver fatalities with very low alcohol + dak.

0-31 ='s one drink had within the last 2 hours for any but the biggest of males (who might have managed 2.

Few obvious effects from sole use; slight intensification of mood and no feeling of relaxation has set in at that level.

So under 10% of killed riders are officially pissed versus just over 20% of car drivers per the motor vehicle crashes in NZ 2006 book (M.O.T.). The ages of the 3 drunk riders are not provided. Panic is coming from big huge spike in crashes across the board this year. Huge road safety bungling.

In week 46 (2007) the control charts showed 320 fatal crashes when 250 was the expected goal given heavily ramped up enforcement. It's a failed model - but subjects other than speed and alcohol (and a narrow approach to those) are banned.., hence the ramblings re bikers stopping in at cafes to get pickled. They're trying to blame the victims and scare people off bikes in order they won't miss toll targets (KPI) so bad as currently are?!?.

Interesting. What's dak? Still needs comparitive data to put it into perspective, and to validate the theory that pissed old pharts on "new tech" bikes are worthy of aprobation.

It'll be interesting to see the reply...

In a meeting I had with ACC, I was informed that the "born again" (I cant actually remember how she put it) riders are statistically the highest with Motorcycle Accidents

Again, there's a significant bulge in the demographic riding, "most fatalities" doesn't nescessarily mean "highest risk". Having said that, much as I'd be surprised to find older guys are more at risk per kilometer ridden it may well be the case.

[Cache Wraith]

Whether his comments are correct or not, to me is irrelevant at this point. This smacks of damage control after the accident with the Police vehicle and motorcycles.