Insurance companies and leaving your keys in the ignition

[ynot slow]

Easy to be wise after the fact.
Such a shit society we live in today,you need to lock it or loose it,just cause I WORK HARD FOR IT WHY SHOULDN'T SOME LOWLIFE WITH NO BRAIN come and pinch it,after all my insurance will pay,yeah right.

I take my keys but don't lock the car,obviously if in city and am in car by myself I would lock it. BP Eltham is bit different than BP in city.

Best thing I saw was a few years ago in Auckland,mum had a new 626 Mazda,with alarm,stopped at shopping centre around Mangere,alarmed car but had window down halfway,walked away and watched,took about 3 mins before a local immigrant(ethnic)saw the oportunity,shit did he turn white when he tried to pull the lock up and open door when alarm went off,stupid cunt also got his arm stuck, with shock of sound of alarm he twisted it and nearly broke his forearm,meanwhile I casually went to drivers door,turned on the ignition to start,and wound up the window tight so he couldn't get away,then rang the cops,was scary though as most of the people were islanders,but they gave him shit,cops turned up,asked me too release him from window,damn I pushed the wrong button first,then released him,turned out he was wanted for a few crimes.

Also had another mate who had a dobberman,would sit behind the front seat on floor,the guy would leave his windows down a bit,he had similar story when a guy tried to get in,fair shit himself when the dog grabbed his arm,the guy was a constable in NP at time,now with drug squad,dog was better than alarm.

[sAsLEX]

Also had another mate who had a dobberman,would sit behind the front seat on floor,the guy would leave his windows down a bit,he had similar story when a guy tried to get in,fair shit himself when the dog grabbed his arm,the guy was a constable in NP at time,now with drug squad,dog was better than alarm.

But to quote some of the young kids who ask for a fiver to watch your car during football matches in England.

"Can your dog put out fires?"

[Swoop]

Don't insurance companies insure against accidents anymore?

Accidents = yes. Basic human stupidity... no.
Leaving your keys anywhere near your vehicle, is plain stupid.

they did actually get away with it, and apparently, it has happened at this station many times, but no extra signage any where to warn people that may make the simple mistake of leaving the keys in the ignition

Signage = shit.
I witnessed TWO people dancing on the top of a bar last night! FFS there was NO sign that said "DON"T DANCE ON THE FUCKING BAR!!!". Where is osh when you need them???!!!

Such a shit society we live in today,you need to lock it or loose it,just cause I WORK HARD FOR IT WHY SHOULDN'T SOME LOWLIFE WITH NO BRAIN come and pinch it,after all my insurance will pay,yeah right.

I take my keys but don't lock the car,obviously if in city and am in car by myself I would lock it. BP Eltham is bit different than BP in city.

Basic rule. "Go ahead - take my vehicle... if you can run faster than 850fps".

[Oscar]

Excerpt from a State Insurance policy, from the paper cited by Mr Matt_TG

The insured shall take all reasonable steps to safeguard from loss or
damage and maintain in efficient condition, any vehicle described in the
Schedule hereto…

What impertinence. If I do not have my car tuned up (so it is not running efficiently), or if the engine is worn and smoking (also inefficient), the insurer is at liberty to deny a claim when it is stolen ! By their logic they are entitled to deny a claim if they can show you have missed a recommended service.

As to the keys thing. It may be valid to say that if a person habitually leaves the keys in the car all day parked in the middle of the city by the roadside, then that is careless and stupid. But leaving them in the car while one walks a few feet , with the vehicle in full sight seems another matter. And if the iinsurance companies argument be accepted, then arguably taking the keys with you is not enough. After all, what if you put them down on the counter while paying for the petrol and Rangi McLowlife snatches them and runs out to your car and drives off? Claim declined I imagine. What if Rangi snatches them from your hand? The insurance company will no doubt claim that you have been negligent in not putting them in a buttoned pocket.

Do you always put a chain through the wheel of your bike when you go to pay for your petrol? If not, I suspect an insurance company would decline a claim if Rangi aand a couple of strong mates grabbed the bike (no keys in it but not chained), and threw it onto his ute and drove off. Not hard to do with a small bike.

Insurance companies are the greatest knaves unhung. They are without exception total crooks and scoundrels, and that industry is massively overdue for legislative sorting out. In my opinion an insurance policy is like as not a waste of money, because insurance companies will ALWAYS try to evade their responsibilities.

Without exception?
Massively overdue for legislative sorting out?
Always evade responsibilities?

My, you don't half get excited...
It's a pity your logic is not as strong as your hyperbole.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing (which makes you exceptionally dangerous indeed) – you seem to have extrapolated much from one paragraph taken out of context, Grasshopper.

Firstly, the maintenance clause in that State policy (badly worded, I must say), is there to stop you making a claim after binning your bike on bald tyres or worn out brakes.

They are unable to decline a claim using your "missed service" scenario due to the provisions of the various Insurance Law Reform Acts. A claim cannot be declined for a reason that is not directly related to the loss.

Your other claim scenarios would be covered as they lack any real reason for the Insurer to decline them. As for the subject of this thread, I would expect that it has a good chance of being paid for the same reason – the underwriter is going to have to prove that leaving your keys in the car in a servo is gross negligence. If it isn’t I would imagine a Lawyers letter to the insurer would clear things up.

[Coyote]

Accidents = yes. Basic human stupidity... no.
Leaving your keys anywhere near your vehicle, is plain stupid.

Most insurance claims are because of basic human stupidity. Going too fast for the conditions, your paintwork getting keyed, finding your bike on the ground with a tow bar dent on it's side, theft, etc. Leaving your key on the bike is not the brightest thing in the world, but I have done it the odd time when I'm in a rush or just absent minded. We all pay a small fortune to the insurance companies, I see this as just another way they try to whittle down their responsibilities that they should be paying out for.

"But they're making our premiums higher!" I hear someone say. Drop in the bucket in comparison to share holder pressure.


For a few years we had our dirt bikes on full cover, expensive stuff. We later found out they were only covered for the trailer flipping over with bikes still attached, not if a tie down failed and the bike fell off. Not likely to happen.

[Matt_TG]

As there's so much anti feeling amongst KBers towards insurance, why the hell do any of you actually insure your bikes? Reading these threads we have so many 'experts' who know all about what should be covered .. start up your own insurance company then, just for KBers. Ask no questions, take on anyone you can, bugger the risk or past insurance history. Pay every claim you get without question and you'll all be happy.

You'd make the claims handler's lives of the main insurers much easier. Of course there's nothing better in a claim's handlers' eyes than to drag out every single claim so it goes on forever.

Silly me, I was under the impression that insurer's main push was to reduce claim life. They LOVE having 100's of open files on their desks and fielding phone calls all day. [/sarcasm]

[sAsLEX]

As there's so much anti feeling amongst KBers towards insurance, why the hell do any of you actually insure your bikes?

Maybe its from all the bad experiences?


I know my insurance was a bitch when they tried to devalue my bike when in fact it was worth more when I had to claim for its theft. Seems market value only means market value if that is less than the value insured.

[Matt_TG]

If you insured something for less than it's worth, and they accepted the policy, then you wouldn't be fully indemnified if you were only paid the sum insured. They should deduct the excess off the actual loss (not the sum insured) and if that was still below what you lost in $$ value and there was a wreck to sell, you'd be entitled to proceeds of the wreck sale up to the amount to compensate for the actual value of the bike pre-loss. So, in effect you can get more than the sum insured on a market value policy....

[Oscar]

If you insured something for less than it's worth, and they accepted the policy, then you wouldn't be fully indemnified if you were only paid the sum insured. They should deduct the excess off the actual loss (not the sum insured) and if that was still below what you lost in $$ value and there was a wreck to sell, you'd be entitled to proceeds of the wreck sale up to the amount to compensate for the actual value of the bike pre-loss. So, in effect you can get more than the sum insured on a market value policy....

If you knowingly under-insure, they could apply average. That is.only pay the percentage of the claim that is insured - OK for a write off, but not for other claims (and they would be less likely to write big claims off).
What you suggest with the wreck is actually sometimes done, where the under-insurance is not deemed to be deliberate. The excess however, is deducted from the claim, not the value of the loss - you mention the insurer accepting the policy, but you accept it too, and that's how it's written.

If insurers allowed people to purposely under-insure, premiums would increase. Bear in mind that noy all cliams are total losses - the insurers would still be paying for the small claims.

[Matt_TG]

Average would only apply if specifically notified of it existing at the time of taking out the policy (Sec 16 , Insurance Law Reform Act 1985).

The insurer should be sure it knows what it is insuring at the outset.

[Oscar]

Average would only apply if specifically notified of it existing at the time of taking out the policy (Sec 16 , Insurance Law Reform Act 1985).

The insurer should be sure it knows what it is insuring at the outset.

Many insurers still have that clause in their policy.

[Shaun Harris]

AND APOLIGISE I WILL!!



The part about this that has really got me very angry, is the fact that the person who sold my great friend his policy, was 100% AWARE THAT HE HAD SEVERE READING PROBLEMS, AS WAS HIGH LIGHTED IN HIS LAST INSURANCE CLAIM FOR A ACCIDENT HE HAD, AND THAT SAME PERSON HAS LIED TO ME, BY SAYING THAT A CERTAIN CONVERSATION THAT TOOK PLACE BETWEEN THEM, NEVER HAPPENED! AND I KNOW WHO I WILL TRUST FROM NOW ON FOR SURE



I have had a very good conversation with the person involved in this, that I have stated he lied to me, and was 100% aware of my freinds delema,

First off, I was wrong about his 100% understanding that my freind had a severe reading dissability

And this person never Lied to me, it was a case of miss communication between him and my friend and myself

This was started out of frustration and anger and the thought that a friend was about to get a good kicking, as well as to remind others about the keys!

I am a man of principal, but can also be quite aggressive ( If no one had noticed)

I apologise to the person who I stated has lied and stiched a friend up in this thread, I am eating humble pie by the bucket load!

For the people offering constructive thoughts in this thread, thankyou for your concern for a fellow human and biker, sorry to have wasted all your time

Shaun Harris

[Matt_TG]

Let's all hope Shaun that it works out ok for all involved!

[NordieBoy]

I am sorry but if you leave the keys in your car and your car gets nicked whose fault is it?

The person who nicked it?

Would you leave your keys in your bike if you pulled into a service station and walk away from it.

Yes, all the time.

One more reason not to move "oop norf".

[Swoop]

Seems market value only means market value if that is less than the value insured.

What I love, is "agreed value"...

Each year the valued amount changes.
*Phone call* "My agreed value has changed".
"Yes, so what?"
"I haven't been consulted, OR agreed to the amount changing! So how can it be agreed...?".
"Ummmm......."


Bastards!