Club Ride - Saturday 22 December. Recommended for learners

[Cr1MiNaL]

Sigh. when will you noobs learn that on a bike, smaller tyres mean BETTER road holding and handling. It's not a car !

not entirely true, broader tires mean more surface on the tarmac and more sidewall grip... or so I believe. Otherwise racers would be using 120 tires on the front and rear... broader the profile, steeper the tire and softer the tire better the grip on extreme angles... this is my understanding.


On that note I might come along and offer a few tips on what not to do...

[klyong82]

Broader tires are more stable on bigger bikes too.

[EJK]

Sigh. when will you noobs learn that on a bike, smaller tyres mean BETTER road holding and handling. It's not a car !

not entirely true, broader tires mean more surface on the tarmac and more sidewall grip... or so I believe. Otherwise racers would be using 120 tires on the front and rear... broader the profile, steeper the tire and softer the tire better the grip on extreme angles... this is my understanding.


On that note I might come along and offer a few tips on what not to do...

For a second I was saying "Oh really?! WOW!"

but after R6's post, "Awww..." lol

Yep, indeed thin tyres have less traction (IMHO).

[Ixion]

not entirely true, broader tires mean more surface on the tarmac and more sidewall grip... or so I believe. Otherwise racers would be using 120 tires on the front and rear... broader the profile, steeper the tire and softer the tire better the grip on extreme angles... this is my understanding.


On that note I might come along and offer a few tips on what not to do...

Nope.This is THE hardest myth in motorcycling to dispel. Damn cagers taking up bikes. The reason racers have big tyres is because they need that width to handle the torque they're putting through the rear tyre. But if you don't have that sort of torque (and a two smoker ain't) a big rear tyre is a negative. The broader the tyre the worse your handling and roadholding. Go look at the lean angles 50cc racers get on.

Think about it. suppose you fitted a big wide car tyre to your bike rear. Now imagine leaning that big wide flat tyre into a corner. Nope, not going to work, is it. But, the wider the tyre , the FLATTER it has to be (unless you had really wierd tyres that were huge doughnuts -even then there are side wall limitations).

The ideal motorcycle tyre has a perfectly hemispherical cross section. The wider the tyre, the flatter it has to get and the further it moves away from the ideal

If you are putting 150bhp through the tyre, you don't have any choice. You have to have the width to cope with the torque and accept the negative .

If wide tyres were good for handling, crusiers would outhandle sprotsbikes. Go look at their tyres. Big, eh? And racers would fit crusier tyres.

A bike's not a car. it doesn't handle wel with car tyres on it.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Shall come back to u tomoro Ixon... I don't agree but with everything u said but need sleep atm... nite.

[ital916]

Noted and learnt Ixion, thank you for allowing this noob to learn more about motorcycles.

[Ixion]

Couple more thoughts for anyone still unconvinced that wide tyres are at best a necessary evil.

Take a look at the rear tyre of a sprots bike (one with a big tyre). Squinch down so your head is at ground level. Take a look at just how much of that wide tyre is actually touching the ground (hold the bike upright). You'll find that at most maybe one inch of the width is actually touching (unless the bikes got a flat tyre). Now imagine making the tyre half its width. How much tyre would then be touching the ground? Yep, exactly the same amount. lean the bike over if you want, you'll still have exactly the same amount touching.

Still reckon that wide tyres give better cornering grip? Well, go take a look at the front tyre. Much narrower, isn't it? So, you're saying that designers would deliberately make a bike where the front tyre had much less cornering grip than the rear tyre? I'd be shit scared to ride such bike if that were true. For one thing, the extra grip at the rear would never be any use, cos the front would break away and lowside before you got to use it, and secondly, a front wheel slide is a real BadThing. if wide tyres really gave more cornering grip, you'd have a bigger front tyre than rear.

[Ixion]

Noted and learnt Ixion, thank you for allowing this noob to learn more about motorcycles.

On a motorcycle, learning is the key to survival. You have one of the best handling motorcycles on the road, it will go through corners faster than any 600 or 1000, given a skilled rider. There are guys on this site like Mr Two Smoker who have proven that. You just need to learn to ride it.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Ok heres what I don't agree with :

Go look at the lean angles 50cc racers get on.

So ur saying Moto Gp racers get less lean than 50 cc pootlers? I doubt it... ref: attachment.

Think about it. suppose you fitted a big wide car tyre to your bike rear. Now imagine leaning that big wide flat tyre into a corner.

were comparing apples with oranges here a car and a bike cannot be compared for purposes of making ur point... A jet aeroplane has small wheels but still goes faster than a bike with larger wheels..? catch my drift?

If wide tyres were good for handling, crusiers would outhandle sprotsbikes. Go look at their tyres. Big, eh? And racers would fit crusier tyres.

This has nothing to do with the tires its how the bikes are built, aerodynamics, power delivery etc...

A bike's not a car.

!!!!

[Cr1MiNaL]

Take a look at the rear tyre of a sprots bike (one with a big tyre). Squinch down so your head is at ground level. Take a look at just how much of that wide tyre is actually touching the ground

Nope actually barely 1 inch touches the ground when my tire is new but when its leant over a lot more 2-3 inches? touch the ground.

Still reckon that wide tyres give better cornering grip?

Yup a v experienced racer told me so.

Well, go take a look at the front tyre. Much narrower, isn't it? So, you're saying that designers would deliberately make a bike where the front tyre had much less cornering grip than the rear tyre?

No what Im saying is that thinner tires tend to tip in faster than fat tires. If the front was fat and the rear was the same good luck trying to tip the bike into a corner. Thin tires r less stable, answer me this what gives more often the front or the rear?

For one thing, the extra grip at the rear would never be any use, cos the front would break away and lowside before you got to use it

I rest my case, front tires = thinner = less stable = more bins resulting from front giving.

[ital916]

My rear gave twice, my front gave once today but thats a whole different story. In the end tires are my enemy! lol sigh

[Squiggles]

Nope actually barely 1 inch touches the ground when my tire is new but when its leant over a lot more 2-3 inches? touch the ground.

I suspect that'll be the design of the tyres you're running
Some of this may be of relevance:

Area Under Cornering
.....
Another aspect to this is of course the tire cross-sectional profile. The old Dunlop triangular racing tire, for example, was designed to put more rubber on the road when leant over, so even without tire distortion the contact patch area increased, simply by virtue of the lean angle.

See also the attached image which comes straight from Bridgestones Basic tire introduction http://mc.bridgestone.co.jp/pdf/mcintroe.pdf

No what Im saying is that thinner tires tend to tip in faster than fat tires.

So more responsive? i.e. better handling?

Thin tires r less stable, answer me this what gives more often the front or the rear?

Now that is irrelevant, the front doesnt have your twitchy throttle control playing havoc on the forces exterted on it

traction is a function of downforce on the contact patch and the friction of the road surface. Therefore the 110 and the 180 have the same traction, just that the 110 has more lbs-per-sq-in on its contact patch then the 180.

now that i've picked out random points for both sides but not actually bother to look deeper (first year style essay ftw) , lets take it to another thread and keep this clean!

[motorbyclist]

A jet aeroplane has small wheels but still goes faster than a bike with larger wheels..? catch my drift?

jets have HUGE wheels, just small relative to the size/mass.. but i'm sure we get your drift

So more responsive? i.e. better handling?

better handling will corner faster too...


both ixion and raj are wrong here, so unless they want to get their facts straight i agree with squiggles - new thread for that stuff

well now that i've had my say in the matter

[klyong82]

interesting topic. I am always learning something new each day

[babyblade250rr]

im going mountain bike tyres lol