Personal protection - (Was part of Africa on a GN250)

[Romeo]

So, carrying a big shiny expensive piece isn't going to make you an attractive target to these thug soldiers? I've seen people ruthlessly hunted down and killed over less bling. Strap a skanky old AK-47 to your back and they'll avoid you like the plague.

[Lias]

It's probably related to spending too much time around wolf but I'm starting to quite like the BMW touring bikes.. so my choice would be a R1200 GS, combined with a colt anaconda .44 with ivory grips with sledgehammer logo

[pritch]

My vote goes to the Glock 21, but I'm biased.

I thought most Africans (too many anyway) already had a Kalashnikov...

[0arbreaka]

Yehaaaaa! The ol' .45ACP vs 9mm FAWOMFT!
Unless, of course, you're one of those "The .45ACP/.357Mag/.44Mag/.454 Casull/.50AE/whatever is a magic wand and will kill a person if they look at it" idiots who doesn't believe that bullet placement has any bearing on the matter.

Believe me im a firm believer in bullet placement, Ive done enough shooting to know that a well placed smaller caliber bullet is just as effective as a larger caliber bullet.

[Wolf]

If Lias had been spending too much time around me he'd be choosing a small, light chicken-chaser instead of the biggest bike BMW makes...

My preferred weapons for the task:

Pic1: Yamaha XT225 - nice and light, able to go nearly anywhere off-road at a decent clip (Lois Pryce used one to distance herself from a couple of fake cops on a rutted donkey-track in South America - to great effect)

Pic2: Generally, the only weapon I need - has served me well for a large number of years. Can't be taken off me and used against me in a fight and I've always got it on me when I need it.

As far as weapons go, it's pretty effective. It was all Ted Simon, Lois Pryce, her husband Austin Vince, Sjaak Lucassen, Jo and Gareth Morgan and a large number of other bikers have needed to use in some of the (reputedly) most dangerous countries in the World.

But if I were ever in a position where I had to carry a firearm to protect life and limb, I'd get one of these:

Pic3: Walther P99 in 9mm - loaded with 115-gr Cor Bon +P rounds. After I'd put a couple of thousand rounds through it under various conditions and was confident I could hit an actively hostile target with it.

And it'd still only be a secondary weapon - the primary being the one in Pic2.

As to P99 vs the Glock, I find the ergonomic profile of the P99 better suited to my hand than the Glock. Both are excellent weapons and the Glock holds more in the mag but that advantage is kind of nullified by the fact that I'd find it harder to shoot accurately than the P99.

[Wolf]

Believe me im a firm believer in bullet placement, Ive done enough shooting to know that a well placed smaller caliber bullet is just as effective as a larger caliber bullet.

Then your previous comment on 9mm being a "waste of time" is quite surprising, given that it is just as effective as the .45 - as well as being cheaper to buy and lighter to carry.

Personally, I see the benefits of a .22lr pistol as being even cheaper to feed than a 9mm and, while it won't teach you as much about recoil control and lessening your return-to-target times as a 9mm or .45, it'll still teach you the all-important aiming skills and muscle control required for maintaining steady performance. So I wouldn't even deem the ever-so-humble .22 as "a waste of time", let alone a proven military/police/self defence/target round such as the 9mm.

[0arbreaka]

When I said I thought it was a waste of time I was referring to the stopping power in which the 9mm round offers in comparison to that of the .45acp, In many if not most cases it takes more than two rounds to completely stop an assailant, while with .45acp it usually does not require more than two rounds to completely stop an assailant. Need I say that .45acp is also a proven and often highly recomended round for the various military/police/self defence/target uses.

Even with well placed shots, stopping power does play a large part completely stopping an assailant. Think about it this way, what would you use to stop a charging bull? I know I wouldnt use a .22lr or a 9mm.

If you want an example then look into the Steven Wallace case, it required 4 rounds to stop his assault against the attending officer.

[sAsLEX]

I like the P226........

And a R1.......

[Wolf]

Think about it this way, what would you use to stop a charging bull?

A swift side-step and a length of 2x2 usually does it.

As to "stopping power", that has more to do with how well the bullet traumatises tissue and induces shock (thus sapping his will to pursue the fight, failing an outright kill) than mere calibre - a 115-gr +P 9mm Jacketted Hollow Point has more "stopping power" than a .45ACP hard-ball and a friend of mine demonstrated experimentally that a .22lr hollow-point filled with mercury from a cheap thermometer can vapourise the back of a round strainer post so I'd hate to think what that'd do to human tissue.

Of course, mercury rounds are not "kosher" so far as personal protection goes but a good 9mm with a decent well-designed self-defence round generally has quite sufficient "stopping power" when it comes to seriously fucking up a human's equilibrium. Likewise a .45ACP with a well-designed self-defence round has quite sufficient "stopping power" in that respect. Any weapon with a poorly-designed round will fail, even a .50AE.

Of course, placement is essential - a good self-defence round in the arm is only likely to enrage an assailant but one or two in the bread basket can give him/her more pressing concerns than the logistics of dealing to you.

Note: I am crediting you with having the intelligence to be talking about true "stopping power" rather than the Hollyweird version wherein a heavy, high-powered round brings a charging man to an abrupt halt in his tracks and knocks him over (yet somehow fails to throw the shooter sixty feet backwards).

Of course, you're entitled to a contrary opinion to mine - but try telling someone who has a 9mm loaded with 115-gr Cor Bon +P JHPs levelled at your chest that he's wasting his time as it's not going to stop you...

And if you're really worried about stopping power, get a .357 Magnum revolver and load up with Federal 357B (.357 Mag 125-gr JHP) - it'll piss over the .45ACP and any other defensive handgun on the market. (And the good news is, you can feed it a diet of cheap .38 special ammo when practising at the range.)

[Mr Merde]

... Putting this technicality aside, you might find a glock much more accurate. Accuracy with a revolver is best achieved when the muzzle is in the victim to be's mouth.

Sorry to burst your bubble but revolvers are more intrinsically accurate than semi auto pistols.

Less moving parts, much tighter lock up and much less to go wrong with them.

First shot with a revolver is much faster.

Only in highly trained and skillful persons does a semi come into its own and also that semi needs to have some serious work done to it.

As an example of high skill revolver use.


BTW -- In the days when I was required to carry a pistol on me, my item of choice was a revolver. Chambered for .44 Special and holding 5 shots. It had a 3 inch barrel and weighed 19oz. Sat in the small of my back and was very comfortable. At 25 metres this pistol was capable of putting all 5 rounds in a group that measured 1" in diameter (if I did my part).

In 1934 Ed mcGivern fired 6 shots from a revolver in 45/100 ths of a second. The target was 10 feet from him and all bullet holes coud be covered with our 50 cent piece. This has not been beaten to this day. He used a stock stndard revolver double action.

[Wolf]

First shot with a revolver is much faster.

Can you qualify in what way and why?

[Mikkel]

I think you'll find that shooting Africans is illegal these days. If not, it is definitely frowned upon. Putting this technicality aside, you might find a glock much more accurate. Accuracy with a revolver is best achieved when the muzzle is in the victim to be's mouth.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that at least 15 African nations are currently in some kind of civil war, so as long as you shoot the right africans you'll be fine.
Ie; shoot rebels in government held areas and vice versa.

Yes, a lot in a previous life and recently at Brookby. Actually looking at taking it up again.

In the context of shooting moving African's, (they're pretty quick on their feet if you look at Olympic records) I would feel more confident with a glock than a revolver. However, tied to a post at 25 yards, a rock would do to.

African national - - there is no country called Africa... There are like 3.5079 billion countries in Africa. I think the term you are looking for is negros - or as they are known in more colloquial terms niggas.

In 1934 Ed mcGivern fired 6 shots from a revolver in 45/100 ths of a second. The target was 10 feet from him and all bullet holes coud be covered with our 50 cent piece. This has not been beaten to this day. He used a stock stndard revolver double action.

Crikey that's insane!

[Finn]

Only in highly trained and skillful persons does a semi come into its own and also that semi needs to have some serious work done to it.

Thank you. In a close range hostile exchange of gun fire, I would feel much more comfortable with say a Glock with 30+ rounds.

[Mikkel]

Why settle for less if you can afford an UZI?

[jrandom]

Why settle for less if you can afford an UZI?

Because it'll jam.