Campervan that hit bikers a couple of weeks back

**Maha** · 19th December 2007, 16:12

Originally Posted by RantyDave

Oh, puhleeeze. And I'm not just referring to Mr Dan, either.

She had AN ACCIDENT. She wasn't drunk. She wasn't fucking speeding. She wasn't doing a u-turn to pursue an allegedly speeding biker. She didn't, FFS, see a whole raft of bikers coming and decide to mow them all down. No. She drifted onto the gravel - probably trying to make some more space for the bikers - felt it pull left, overcorrected to the right, and by the looks of things the weight of the top of the camper has pulled it into the corner and into the path of the oncoming bikers.

She made no attempt to hide the fact. Never once claimed it was anyone's fault but her own. And feels awful about the whole thing. Sure, thirty grand is neither here nor there, but ... honestly ... it's not like locking her up would help, is it?

Fucks' sake. Are you trying to tell me that nobody here ever has an accident? Ever?

Dave

Totally agree with ya Dave...didnt read you post before i posted, but we say similar things....bling sent mate!

**Mikkel** · 19th December 2007, 16:25

Originally Posted by Blue Velvet

I don't wish more ill on the tourist, as others have posted it would not change anything.

I do think that people need to be more careful/attentive on the roads, and I wish that "just an accident" wasn't such an accepted explanation for a lot of things.

Indeed - I don't think anyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle is going to be opposed to the view that there are far too many inattentive drivers out there. And that these drivers poses a hazard to the health and safety of their fellow motorists.

As MSTRS pointed out, we don't know what caused the accident to occur. But it is probably more likely that the cause should be attributed to driving an unfamiliar vehicle on unfamiliar roads than inattention. And the most tragic of causes - that she could have gone onto the shoulder to make room for the bikes - is truly horrifying.

An accident is an accident - but you're more likely to have an accident if you're driving like a dick than if you're exercising due care. However, no matter the amount of care you take in your driving you can still have an accident...

**MyGSXF:Me** · 19th December 2007, 16:28

I actually kinda thought that the "sight" of all the bikes coming towards them, might have been the "instigator" of the whole senario.. maybe the tourists were momentarily distracted by the awesome sight.. & that's when the camper drifted...

I mean, who doesn't enjoy to see a heap of bikes all out riding together... & have to have a wee look as they all go past!!!

Tis a possibility.....

All I know for sure.. is that I wouldn't want to live in that woman's head, heart & conscience.. for the rest of her life...

**mstriumph** · 19th December 2007, 16:30

Originally Posted by imdying

$31000 and that on her concience for life... could've been a worse outcome.

i WISH people would stop saying that sort of thing

we have no idea whether the person concerned even HAS a concience so dribbling on about how awful they'll feel for the rest of their lives is ..... just dribble

**mstriumph** · 19th December 2007, 16:31

Originally Posted by MyGSXF

............All I know for sure.. is that I wouldn't want to live in that woman's head, heart & conscience.. for the rest of her life...

and all i know for sure is that i'd rather be her than the people she's killed

**Ixion** · 19th December 2007, 16:38

Originally Posted by daytona 2

Have you ever driven one of those "campervans" they handle like a rollerskate, once they get into any kind of body-roll, understear or overstear, they are gone. The center of gravity is too high for all but the flatest road surface, and

alot of our roads are cambered badly. I know a guy who managed to roll one on the desert road, the cops new what they were like and did not lay charges. Shit happens.

So, what you are saying, is that vehicles that are known to be very unstable, to require extreme care and considerable skill, are allowed to be driven by drivers who (a) have no experience of them ; (b) are driving under very unfamiliar conditions ; (c) are driving long distances when they are probably unaccustomed to such long haul driving ; (d) are of unknown but possible limited experience in general.

Now, doesn't that sound like something that should be looked into.

This is the whole difference between motor accidents and air accidents. If a plane crashed and the accident invesigation came up with conclusions like that, there would be immediate steps taken to address the issue. With motor accidents, if it can't be blamed on speed or drink, it's just called an "accident" and no one is interested in it any further.

Manifestly, the driver was incompetent. If that seems harsh, too bad. Competent drivers do not turn their vehicles over on a straight road. She was not (as far as we know) negligent, and the law allowed her to drive the vehicle. But she was incompetent. It is quite possible that most car drivers (myself included) would in fact be unable to drive such a vehicle competently . If so,then the design of the vehicle needs to be addressed.

Shit happens, but it happens a hell of a lot more often when there are not effective processes to prevent it happening.

**fireliv** · 19th December 2007, 16:38

Originally Posted by discodan

What a joke our justice system is.

For some reason it is ok to kill four people as long as you are encased in a 2 tonne metal cage... oh and that will $30,000 please.

Originally Posted by Monsterbishi

I know a guy who got more than $8k for losing a couple of toes in a industrial accident!, and that's all the tourist has to pay for a single life they took, that's insulting really, so much for the punishment fitting the crime.

What's worse really is that NZD$31k to a european is about the equivalent of NZD$10k to us, considering how much higher their cost of living is over there, so 4 lives for the cost of a used Japanese car.

Hell, the dudes an architect, $31k is nothing to him.

Originally Posted by Colapop

Yeah I can see how the poor dear would have the deaths of these people on her conscience. It must be hard on her. I wonder what it's like for the families of the people that she killed by her inattentiveness. I shouldn't be so harsh - she has to pay a pittance for the lives she's taken. $31k NZD vs Euro's from an architects salary... yeah I can see the pain she's suffering...

Originally Posted by surfer

That is so sad, $31K is that all life is worth!

Yep, the driver will have to live with this on their concience but not in her wallet.

Originally Posted by vifferman

Look, it's obvious where this is going to end up.
I say we go and buy the rope right now, and hang the bitch.

Nothing short of revenge is going to remedy this sad situation. I'm sure the family and friends of the deceased were hoping the judge would give her a capital sentence, and nothing else is going to fix things for them.
Perhaps it wouldn't be too over the top if she were 'accidentally' damaged a bit on the way to the hanging tree? Or maybe we could bring back the olde "hung, drawn and quartered" punishment?

Fuck - when will those softcocks in the Justice Department realise that the KiwiBiker Ultimate Judgement Tribunal could very quickly fix all the wrongs in Noo Zilund, if they just give us plenty of beer, some fine Italian bikes, and more money than you can shake a stick at.

THese are Just a few of the posts I found on the first page of this thread. How typical it is that you post about something you know NOTHING about.

Well I was in court today when this sentence happened, and I can tell you that it was highly emotional, and she will punish herself for the rest of her life. It was made perfectly clear to everyone there that this was all the money she had to give, and would give more if she could. THat this money was not a representative of how much there lives are worth- as no price is made on that. But the money was there to give, and to be dealt out as the Judge saw fit.

She has had to meet the families of those killed, and they have forgiven her, even talking to her afterwards, all admitting that they know that it was an accident.

So grow up people. Stop acting like ignorant red necks and ranting on about something you know shit about

**MyGSXF:Me** · 19th December 2007, 16:39

Originally Posted by mstriumph

i WISH people would stop saying that sort of thing

we have no idea whether the person concerned even HAS a concience so dribbling on about how awful they'll feel for the rest of their lives is ..... just dribble

Do you honestly think that from the times she has been shown live on tv & what she said in her statements etc.. she is some kind of dropkick loser who doesn't have a heart???

Originally Posted by mstriumph

and all i know for sure is that i'd rather be her than the people she's killed

I wouldn't want to be ANY of them! not victims, families or the driver

Unfortunately, when ya time is up.. ya time is up! It's not for us to "decide"

(unless suicide of course)

**Colapop** · 19th December 2007, 16:42

Both sides of this argument are trying to justify their position...

"She should be jailed/strung up etc..."

"Poor woman is going to live with consequences etc..."

Who's right? No-one. The only absolute here is that these people were killed. They are dead and they're not coming back.

**jonbuoy** · 19th December 2007, 16:45

Out come the "Peter perfects" who've never made a mistake in their lives. It was a fucking ACCIDENT she wasn't drunk, speeding, texting, pulling a wheelie or trying to get her pegs down. She fucked up let it go.

**Ixion** · 19th December 2007, 16:51

Why therefore bother to charge her at all ? Serious question.

I can accept that the woman is remorseful. But what then has charging her accomplished? The $31K is meaningless , a pittance to the families of the dead , almost an insult. And it cannot (certainly should not) be a matter of any great account to her,compared to the remorse/guilt etc.

So, what has society achieved by charging her at all ?

Remember too, the charge was careless driving causing death . For such a charge to stick, it is manifestly necessary that greater care could have prevented the crash.

**lanci** · 19th December 2007, 16:52

I think that she will have live to with this shitty event all her life and that is close to punishment enough (she wasn't drifting intentionally or anything daft like that) but to make sure that she is always thinking of those she killed, she should be made to have the photos of the 4 killed in her house for life. That would be a true punishment in my eyes.

**James Deuce** · 19th December 2007, 16:58

Originally Posted by RantyDave

Oh, puhleeeze. And I'm not just referring to Mr Dan, either.

She had AN ACCIDENT. She wasn't drunk. She wasn't fucking speeding. She wasn't doing a u-turn to pursue an allegedly speeding biker. She didn't, FFS, see a whole raft of bikers coming and decide to mow them all down. No. She drifted onto the gravel - probably trying to make some more space for the bikers - felt it pull left, overcorrected to the right, and by the looks of things the weight of the top of the camper has pulled it into the corner and into the path of the oncoming bikers.

She made no attempt to hide the fact. Never once claimed it was anyone's fault but her own. And feels awful about the whole thing. Sure, thirty grand is neither here nor there, but ... honestly ... it's not like locking her up would help, is it?

Fucks' sake. Are you trying to tell me that nobody here ever has an accident? Ever?

Dave

Knowing a little bit more about this thanks to a KBer who is massively more trustworthy than me, I'd say Dave has about hit it on the proverbial nail's head. It's just a shame he isn't up on stage, covering the front row with spittle, eyes bulging, face red as he delivers it.

Both her and her partner feel worse than terrible. The monetary value has no meaning. If you've been on the receiving end of an RTA and experienced a truly repentant person who caused the accident, you'd know that seeking revenge is pointless.

Col, you have a tiny little point there, but the bigger picture is the sad state that our society is in. We've abandoned principles in favour of self-gratification. There shouldn't be any sides. It simply isn't our place to pass judgment on anyone. Unless we're asked to by the civilised society we live in, and even then most people do their best to get out of it.

Revenge has no place in a civilised society.

**James Deuce** · 19th December 2007, 17:00

Originally Posted by Ixion

Remember too, the charge was careless driving causing death.

I go on KB rides where half the people on it should be charged with that. I've been the unwitting and unwilling participant on the other side of the equation twice now, and one of those times the person wasn't charged. Nothing to be gained from it. Didn't worry me in the slightest and I turned reparations down as well. It served no purpose.