Campervan that hit bikers a couple of weeks back

[Usarka]

It's hard to look at these things objectively when you've been directly affected.

Even being tired can be a mistake.

I've driven when tired. It's a completely natural state for someone to be in. And it affects your decision making. Put me in jail for 3 years?

Sentencing of Austrian driver 'most difficult of my life' - judge
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10483305

The whole thing sucks and my sympathies to all involved.

[Paul in NZ]

No accident - either fatigue or less likely drugs (they don't test) would be my guess based on described sequence. Negligence clearcut anyway, and that would explain the guilt level, and her offer to pay all her life savings.

One years disqualification doesn't cut it. Money easy to part with - convenience not. Let her have 3 years disqualification at least - catch the buhloody bus. Some repentence is needed here - and this sentence was a joke. No deterrence, and failed to address the problem. It was to be expected this hand slap, given the medias long grooming of the public to feel for the damsel in distress and potential tourist impacts had she received the sentence a Kiwi would have. Still - quite a shock, how slack it was.

Bollocks - utter bollocks - not even close to what happened - keep guessing

[Timber020]

Putting a price on life is tricky, as is putting a payment on a person who is found responsible for taking a life. Whats a life worth. IF they are young/old/sick/parents/single/ex crims/honda riders/teminally ill?

what if shes a solo mum, or richard branson? How much do they pay? When we start making punishment a monetary thing, only those not rich enough to have a clever accountant and lawyer will ever pay. Im not rich, but find speeding fines a joke, its just money, I can make more, save to pay them or hock of some crap I dont need to get a few extra bucks. But its the points that are a killer, whether your a student, or eric watson, they are something that gets to everyone.

[candor]

She has had to meet the families of those killed, and they have forgiven her, even talking to her afterwards, all admitting that they know that it was an accident. So grow up people. Stop acting like ignorant red necks and ranting on about something you know shit about

Witnessing events in court is not the whole story!
There is a thing called "trauma bonding" which is why some I know working in restorative justice think it is not appropriate in cases involving serious harm.

I have experienced this and have seen it. It is a natural stage to rush to forgiveness of your family member/s killer - to want "closure" so bad and evewryone including the offender to come thru it ok. Often people wh've "forgiven" and "come to terms" with the offender later change their minds with more info (about what happened or the offender)

... and the realisation the guilty party is not really feeling as guilty as they say under pressure of sentencing... or soon after is clearly not so affected shown by reports back about their behaviour.

Often its quickly put behind them - then the victims wish they had not rushed to "make peace" and recommended leniency to the courts. Things may not be as tidy as they may seem - it's a long process.

[Paul in NZ]

I do Paul, take responsibility for my actions. I have changed my outlook significantly since that accident - that I was equally responsible for causing. I'm asking in a probably very blunt way that we all take responsibility for our actions and actually contribute to society rather than expecting only to take from it.
I am not offended by a comment that has no intended malice or acid. I respect that it is said with positive intent other than to solely defame and abuse which all to commonly seems to be the case at times (in the forum).

I teach my kids the three R's;
Respect for others
Respect for self
Responsibility for all your actions

I realised earlier this year that I should be following the same rationale.

Fair enough and I'm glad I you realise I was just using you as an example Col. Sorry I'm so grumpy - I blame the meds - oh hang on..... This is a terrible situation - in the event - from what I know and have been told the bikers probably didn't see the van until the last second and I doubt she saw them due to an 'obstruction'.

There is a horror in this and that horror is that everyday we all probably do something that could cause carnage if someone else just happened to be there. I see it everyday on the motorway, I've seen it every ride, KB or not. PRAY that you never get caught up in something like this, run into a child etc

She stuffed up - they had driven thousands of kms in NZ, she was NOT tired, they are not rich they are just ordinary people who still can't quite figure out what happened but would give it all to undo it but like intelligent folks - realise that they cannot - the money is meaningless but good on em for trying.

[YellowDog]

Guys, I personally have a big problem with ignorant road users on 4+ wheels. This was however was a clear accident and there was no mal-intent. The roads are full of such people. Did she make a mistake or is she just a very poor driver?

I doubt she will ever forget what she is responsible for, so that is a life sentence for her. If she had to pay $500k, then may be it would have been a better life-long reminder however it would not have recovered those lost lives or indeed helped the families deal with their devestating loss.

So what is the answer? In my opinion tougher road safety standards and 5 yearly competence tests would be a good start and help to increase road sense awareness to protect innocent lives.

[candor]

Bollocks - utter bollocks - not even close to what happened - keep guessing

Why keep guessing - its in the Herald article Usarka linked to. What do you see in it I don't?
Or are you saying they misreported it? And I do agre its a terrible situation - I wasn't meaning she should have been jailed at all - just reckon the sentence was under done in other ways, particularly the disqualification period.

[dmouse]

what was the point of the driving ban its only valid in nz and the money is nothing to her quote " from where ever in the world im i will remeber with you" so she is planing on going to other places and maybe carry on her career as a serial killer. a vehicle is a license to kill most people that kill someone on the road gets off with a small ban and small sentance some woman up the north island killed three and got three months in jail amd a ban and had the chek to appeal it, she was allready banned and drunk and smashed on drugs where is the justice

[Grahameeboy]

what was the point of the driving ban its only valid in nz and the money is nothing to her quote " from where ever in the world im i will remeber with you" so she is planing on going to other places and maybe carry on her career as a serial killer. a vehicle is a license to kill most people that kill someone on the road gets off with a small ban and small sentance some woman up the north island killed three and got three months in jail amd a ban and had the chek to appeal it, she was allready banned and drunk and smashed on drugs where is the justice

It was an accident, she did not do anything wrong before getting in the van like drinking etc. The chances of her otherwise killing 4 people were pretty remote and it was a simple case of wrong time, wrong place.

That women up North was drunk. It was not an accident and the chances of her killing 3 people were not so remote. She was not only drunk etc but was banned from driving so her driving attitude was so far removed from the tourist in the camper van

[Mom]

What a tragedy for everyone involved and connected with this horrible incident.

My spin for what it is worth is this...

Tourist comes here to NZ, driving a vehicle gets left hand wheels onto the shoulder of the road, over corrects and veers into the path of oncoming traffic. The oncoming traffic happened to be motorcycle riders.

She knows she is at fault, admits it and appears in court and faces the allowed consequences of her lack of control.

Lets not forget that 4 people, including a child died as a result of her loss of control of the vehicle, and she has to live with that for the rest of her life.

She has been ordered to pay a sum of money to the families of the people that she "killed by her actions" Depending on where you sit it is a lot or a little. It means nothing to the families and friends of the ones that have died, but she has to live with it!

An absolute tragedy for everyone!

[candor]

But Grahameeboy - "wrong time , wrong place" is just not true. Or she would not have been charged. This wasn't a tyre blow out - it was a human factor cause.

Not sure re disqualification Dormouse cos she was on International licence. Hopefully the disq applies elsewhere, but who knows?

[Ixion]

All the touchy feely huggie wuggie stuff about what a wonderful couple they are, how remorseful she is etc , is really quite irrelevant.

There are huge numbers of those camper van things driven by tourists all over the roads. I get stuck behind one almost every time I go out.

The next time I see one I do not want to have to wonder if it is suddenly going to veer across the road in front of me when it is too late to swerve or stop.

Turning your vehicle over on the wrong side of a straight road is not the act of a competent driver.

Barring a true act of God (the van being hit by lightening or something) then there are only two possibilities: either the driver was negligent, or the nature of the vehicle (on that road at any rate) was such that the driver was not able properly to control it.

If the latter, then the appropriate authorties need to take steps to review the licensing arrangments that allow such vehicles to be driven by drivers who have not demonstrated competence at driving them. If the former , then she was negligent, in which case it matters not one jot how remorseful she is or how "lovely" they are. Are we to accept that it is permissable to drive negligently if one is "nice", and will be remorseful when one kills someone ? Negligence is negligence , whether the negligent person be a lovely tourist or the nasty Mongrel Mob member around.

FWIW, my money's on the nature of the vehicle being unsuitable for untrained drivers. Punishing this person further would serve little purpose (the next plane load of tourists won't even know about it). So that won't stop another one doing the same thing, in front of me . Requiring a higher standard of licensing, or forbidding them from difficult roads, might do

(BTW, I wonder why a 30 years old architect would have life savings of only $30K ? Cash on hand of that much , maybe, but to have no other assets by her age, given her profession seems to indicate remarkable improvidence).

[Usarka]

Ixion, you may win that battle the same time as getting the authorities to accept driver/rider training is a good thing. It's only ever about speed, booze, drugs, tiredness etc.

[Number 5]

At least she's going to have a life to live, there's four souls who aren't because of her actions, and four familes who will miss them more than she will even start to realise. She'll pay her tiny fine, and get on with her life, mentally writing the event off as a result of a slippery road, or some other justifyable distraction.

Vifferman - If I were chosing the sentence, I'd make it something that reminds her for life, say, half of her earnings go to the families of the deceased.

That makes real sense, while not being able to compensate for the heartache, it would finacialy compensate the families and give her a sentence that she would remember for life.

[dmouse]

i agree it was very tragic and i feel so much for the ones that have to suffer the loss so much, but as has been said monetary value should and could not really be placed on a life, for justice really to work and be seen to be done right across the board no matter if your on your holidays here or pissed out of your head the law and courts need to understand and punish with sentences that fit the crime we are too soft in NZ too many namby pambies have power and idiots get off with stupid soft options and its allways the innocent that suffer just look at the joker that killed in the rsa gets his face bashed and gets a big payout from ACC or sues the ministry for not looking after him properly idiot jumps out of an aukland nick breaks both his legs gets paid $150,000 from acc tell me where the justice is you pay it on your rego and gas thats justice yes !!!