For Fucks Sake! Fourth fucking bin! Give me a break!

[discotex]

Personally the day I bin and survive will more than likely be the day I stop riding a motorbike. If I truly felt a bin was part of riding or inevitable then I wouldn't be doing it.

Motorcycling and crashing is not inextricably tied together.

Hmmm don't agree at all guys. Motorcycles are inherently unstable. They fall over without a stand. They only have two wheels, are harder to be seen, etc, etc.

Robignevil I personally think it unlikely that you could ride forever without a bin (including those that are not your fault). The odds are massively stacked against you. You can influence the odds but you can't escape them. A good rider will convert many potential bins to near misses but you can't control other people when you're on the road.

I do agree that we shouldn't use the inherent danger as an excuse for every crash that happens though. Too often people aren't prepared to look at how their own actions contributed to an bin and just put it down to "it's a bike.. shit happens".

Seems like that's really what you guys trying to say but there really are some bins that are freak accidents that wouldn't happen in a cage - blowouts are a prime example.

[Ixion]

Hmmm don't agree at all guys. Motorcycles are inherently unstable. They fall over without a stand. They only have two wheels, are harder to be seen, etc, etc.

Robignevil I personally think it unlikely that you could ride forever without a bin (including those that are not your fault). The odds are massively stacked against you. You can influence the odds but you can't escape them. A good rider will convert many potential bins to near misses but you can't control other people when you're on the road.

I do agree that we shouldn't use the inherent danger as an excuse for every crash that happens though. Too often people aren't prepared to look at how their own actions contributed to an bin and just put it down to "it's a bike.. shit happens".

Seems like that's really what you guys trying to say but there really are some bins that are freak accidents that wouldn't happen in a cage - blowouts are a prime example.

Such an attitude is a certain guarantee that you will indeed crash. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

"Forever" is a long time, and no-one probably escapes crashing "forever". But no-one needs to, none of us live for ever. I certainly see no reason why any rider should not expect to ride for the term of his natural life without crashing (I'm not talking about the 'fell over while putting the sidestand down' stuff here. Proper crashes).

A bike is only unstable when stationery or near so, Yes, then it will fall over. But a fall over at 2kph is not what we normally mean by crashing.

Once the bike is moving it is stable , and it is the riders job to keep it so. Come what may (and come it will , sooner or later). Blowouts you say? There are riders on this forum that have ridden out blowouts from high speed. If blowouts are what concerns you PRACTICE DEALING WITH THEM. You CAN ride on a flat tyre. I recently rode 30km home on a completely flat tyre. Whatever the road throws at you (short of a lighening strike maybe) it is your business to deal with it. You, and you alone because no-one else will give a stuff.

And the foremost secret to not crashing. REFUSE TO. Do NOT accept "I'm going to crash sooner or later". Set off every ride saying to yourself, and believing, "I am in control here. I REFUSE to crash, it is not an option". It will not guarantee that you will "never" crash. sometimes shit happens, and the Biker Gods just set you up as Patsy for Today. But those are rare, very rare. Planes crash too, but no-one gets on a plane expecting it is going to crash. and they very rarely do.

And what the Persian gentleman, a true biker wise beyond his years, said. Slow the fuck down. Yes, I know you already are, and your crashes (Mr Drider67's I mean ) were not high speed ones. Slow down anyway. Until you are confident that WHATEVER HAPPENS you can deal with it.

[mattwood]

bad luck mate.

i dont really know, but this is just a suggestion. how about riding a dirtbike or something, u get the hang of sliding and controling dangerous situations? plus theres not the added danger of being run over!

[ital916]

Hey guys all good info and i'm absorbning it all. Oh macstar the tyre went flat when i was filling the air pressure up since i checked it and it was lower so i was at the petrol station fixing it!! I heard what you said and i put it into to use!

[ital916]

Cool so 've absorbed all the info now two seconds later, macstars words stung but helped. Merry christmas people. Hope your christmas season is bin free! Oh and have a happy new year for all those going away on hols.

[discotex]

Such an attitude is a certain guarantee that you will indeed crash. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

No it's not. In fact understanding the many reasons that may lead to a crash can help you avoid it.

I'd be interested to know what the stats are on bikers that ride more than 250,000km without a crash.

Once the bike is moving it is stable , and it is the riders job to keep it so. Come what may (and come it will , sooner or later). Blowouts you say? There are riders on this forum that have ridden out blowouts from high speed. If blowouts are what concerns you PRACTICE DEALING WITH THEM. You CAN ride on a flat tyre. I recently rode 30km home on a completely flat tyre. Whatever the road throws at you (short of a lighening strike maybe) it is your business to deal with it. You, and you alone because no-one else will give a stuff.

Yes many people do ride out blow-outs. I'm sure many crash from them too. Not from lack of skill but by pure chance. On the straight on the motorway vs mid corner for example.

And the foremost secret to not crashing. REFUSE TO. Do NOT accept "I'm going to crash sooner or later". Set off every ride saying to yourself, and believing, "I am in control here. I REFUSE to crash, it is not an option". It will not guarantee that you will "never" crash. sometimes shit happens, and the Biker Gods just set you up as Patsy for Today. But those are rare, very rare. Planes crash too, but no-one gets on a plane expecting it is going to crash. and they very rarely do.

While I agree with you idea to use positive visualisation to psych yourself away from crashing it doesn't stop reality happening and it sure as shit won't stop a freak accident ruining your day.

I think you know that too assuming you wear the gear.

[Ixion]

I'd be interested to know what the stats are on bikers that ride more than 250,000km without a crash.

While I agree with you idea to use positive visualisation to psych yourself away from crashing it doesn't stop reality happening and it sure as shit won't stop a freak accident ruining your day.

Plenty of riders (lots of them right here on this forum) who have gone 250000 km without a crash. And a good deal more than 250000 for that matter.

A freak accident is by definition a freak accident. Sure, nothing can stop the true freak event. But freaks are rare, that's the definition of the word. You might encounter that sort of crash once in a lifetime, if that.

And even the best and most careful rider can stuff up once in a while. If someone has a crash once every twenty years or so, that's probably in the "sooner or later" category. And there are LOTS of people here who have gone that sort of time crash free (as always, I'm not talking 'putting it on the stand' stuff).

One crash in 250000 km , or twenty years, isn't really what we're talking about though , is it? If every rider were to crash only once in twenty years, there would be very few "I binned it" reports on here.

It puzzles me that ,although bikes are inherently less likely to crash than cars, yet people who both drive and ride seem to accept crashing a bike as an everyday occurence, but would be horrified at the thought of crashing their car as often. As to reality, the reality I see is that a careful rider should have no more expectation of crashing than a careful driver in a car. Which is a very rare thing.

[discotex]

Plenty of riders (lots of them right here on this forum) who have gone 250000 km without a crash. And a good deal more than 250000 for that matter.

Many of them probably had a small off in their first 10000km though wouldn't you say? Certainly a fair number of people (I'd guess 50%) will have something happen in that first 10000km that they haven't built up the experience to deal with yet.

A freak accident is by definition a freak accident. Sure, nothing can stop the true freak event. But freaks are rare, that's the definition of the word. You might encounter that sort of crash once in a lifetime, if that.

And even the best and most careful rider can stuff up once in a while. If someone has a crash once every twenty years or so, that's probably in the "sooner or later" category. And there are LOTS of people here who have gone that sort of time crash free (as always, I'm not talking 'putting it on the stand' stuff).

Agree, that's all I'm really trying to say. One or two crashes over a lifetime of riding is highly likely but more than that means you likely have been making your own bad luck.

One crash in 250000 km , or twenty years, isn't really what we're talking about though , is it? If every rider were to crash only once in twenty years, there would be very few "I binned it" reports on here.

It was what I was talking about... Agree that OP's and many bins reported on KB were avoidable with more skill/knowledge/training.

It puzzles me that ,although bikes are inherently less likely to crash than cars, yet people who both drive and ride seem to accept crashing a bike as an everyday occurence, but would be horrified at the thought of crashing their car as often. As to reality, the reality I see is that a careful rider should have no more expectation of crashing than a careful driver in a car. Which is a very rare thing.

Do you think bikes really are inherently less likely to crash than cars? Why's that?

I drove a car for 14 years without crashing once. In less than a year I was hit by a car on my bike while doing almost everything right. You're welcome to dig up my crash report thread (What not to wear).

I don't expect to bin another bike for a long time unless it's on the track but I don't discount the possibility either through my own learning process or another bit of bad luck/timing.

[Ixion]

Many of them probably had a small off in their first 10000km though wouldn't you say? Certainly a fair number of people (I'd guess 50%) will have something happen in that first 10000km that they haven't built up the experience to deal with yet.

No, not really. Unless we include the "put foot down at traffic lights , oh shit it's slippery, oops" stuff. Or car park/off road oopsies when practising stuff like emergency breaking.

Agree, that's all I'm really trying to say. One or two crashes over a lifetime of riding is highly likely but more than that means you likely have been making your own bad luck.

I don't think I'd agree it's 'highly likely' . The objective is NO crashes and there are plenty of riders who achieve that But I'd agree that one or two in a lifetime (assuming that you ride the whole of that lifetime), is probably in the "shit happens" realm .

Do you think bikes really are inherently less likely to crash than cars? Why's that?

I drove a car for 14 years without crashing once. In less than a year I was hit by a car on my bike while doing almost everything right. You're welcome to dig up my crash report thread (What not to wear).

I don't expect to bin another bike for a long time unless it's on the track but I don't discount the possibility either through my own learning process or another bit of bad luck/timing.

Yes, certainly bikes are less likely to crash than cars (of course, when they DO, the result is likely to be nastier). Because a bike is so much more manoeuverable. And the roads are proportionately so much wider.

Obviously "almost everything right" was not quite "everything", cos the bastard still caught you.

But, I think it is very hard for people who have experience driving a car to learn to ride a bike without crashing. Because in a crisis they will instinctively do what works in a car which is often a BadIdea on a bike. Unlearning that conditioning is hard to do.

To be sure, one should never discount the POSSIBILITY of crashing. Just as one cannot discount the possibility of crashing when one gets on a plane, or the possibility of falling off when one climbs a ladder. But it should be a probability sufficiently remote that we consign it to the "too unlikely to worry about " bin . Nothing is totally safe. People have choked to death eating their dinner. But while I recognise the possibility it's sufficiently small that I'm not going to miss dinner on account of it.

[pritch]

Talking of bad luck, turns out my rear tires air plug is short and decided to bleed air,

Sorry, that's not bad luck!

The manual for every bike I've owned in recent years said replace tyres, not repair them.

Whether the "repair" was done out of parsimony or stupidity doesn't really matter. The results are potentially equally unfortunate.

At the risk of repeating myself, a Z rated tyre is rated suitable for a continuous 150 MPH. What do you reckon a "repaired" tyre is rated at?

Bear in mind, you are now going to go out and bet your life on it...

Good luck.

[Ixion]

I think perhaps he meant the valve stem? Though I'm not sure how "short" figures in there, but I can't see how "short" would figure in a mushroom or 'dog turd' plug either (which I presume is what you are thinking of ? )

[Subike]

3 offs in 30 years of riding
one was beacuse I was a drunken idiot at age 21 full of bravado and totally indestructable. Ego was the cause of that one. Well deserved/
Two was a stupid windrow of pea shingle at 15 mph on a city corner/.
Three was the day I tried to ride a trail bike for the first time, Fuck that again! Tar seal for me.
As far as I am concerned, the speed is relitive to the road conditions.
Good road, good speed,
Rain, traffic, wind, traffic, snow, traffic, fog, traffic and finally traffic..
Ride within the conditions you are presented with
I own a 50cc suzuki for riding around towns, anything bigger is a waste of time . The exessive is for the open raod, unless touring.
The open road starts and ends at my front gate, so I am use to sencibile speeds every day.
Fall? Whats that? Na. Flat tyre, ride slow very slow if it is the front, but still ride, just hurts the wallet for a new tyre when you kill a tyre.
I learnt to reconise that I am softer than the road, and I dont want to meet it.
Speed is one hell of a buzz
But that buzz is tempered by style.
I have white hair from age not from stress

[ital916]

Yeah the thread on the valve is short so when trying to connect the hose at the gas station it tends to deflate the tyre unless you realllly jam it in there...pff fuck off on using a repaired tyre. I would replace it mate.

[Ixion]

This is a pretty much universal problem. You can buy special gizmos to connect , or do as I do and keep a small footpump at home .

[Macstar]

Hey guys all good info and i'm absorbning it all. Oh macstar the tyre went flat when i was filling the air pressure up since i checked it and it was lower so i was at the petrol station fixing it!! I heard what you said and i put it into to use!

Sorry Dushy, I apologise for getting that wrong. I made my comments on the info you had provided in the forum. As said however, I don't want to see any serious harm come to you and still believe you should contact Kittyhawk and have some sessions on the Mt Welly track.