Feminism - what is it?

[KATWYN]

To me, simply put, feminisim is about equality in all aspects of life, equal rights, and equal choices, not just for women but for men also, it's no longer a 'the women against the men' thing, but about equality and respect for all.

Agreed.

Also a lot of us say we are not feminists, but then go on to make comments about believing in equal rights etc. Don't mean to freak you out but there are three types of feminist. Liberal, cultural and radical. I relate (and i'm sure the majority of us do, including men) to liberal and cultural feminism.

However the radicals (in Western society)... IMHO I think are over the top....and unfortunately the radical groups always seem to become representitive of any positive movement that is trying to bring about positive change so it kinda ruins it for the rest of us. End result: Peoples general understanding of feminism is based on "aggressive radicals" therefore understandably turning the word feminism into something to be feared and not want to be associated with

[Rosie]

Pendulum swing...


In a nut shell - women unhappy in the 50s all the 'equal rights' for women malarky and suffrage etc came about... now it is swinging further past the natural balance point with women taking on 'male jobs' ...

Can you give some examples of these 'male jobs'?

[karla]

So - What is ‘feminism’ to you?

A doctrine that advocates equal rights for all women (regardless of age, ethnicity etc)?

An outdated concept / theory that was started in the 19th century and has no validity in this day and age?

A social movement that attempts to address, analyse and interpret issues of particular importance for women (e.g. domestic violence, pay equity, globalisation)?

A movement started by power crazy ‘hairy lesbians’ for the purpose of mocking and putting down all men on this earth?

Something else entirely?

Feminism to me used to be about a movement towards equality for women .. until I started looking really closely at it, and learning about it. It was very disturbing to realise that my whole life I was sold a bill of rights which was based on a conclusion drawn from false premises.

Women have always been equal to men - we have never been "above" or "below".

We are all in this together, and I've learned that for every action there is a reaction. While women are fighting for the right to work and equal pay, men are fighting to be stay-at-home dad's, or to have basic rights of access to their children. When men die young because they have worked themselves to death, or in some war that is not of their making, women are left alone.

There is strength in unity - feminism and it's rival, men's rights, are to my mind political and divisive. There are too many casulties from gender wars. We are human, we are social beings, and we need each other, therefore we all have to learn to get along.

And finally

"Feminism - I myself have never known what feminism is. I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat." -Rebecca West, 1913

This made me smile, but it is also a classic example of women oppressing other women. It's the classic 'shame and blame' game - if women are being doormats we think that is a "bad" thing ... but the reality is that being a doormat is often just a part of a growing and learning phase. It can also be a choice - to my mind it takes a very strong woman to hold her tongue, and give a man an upper place.

Unless the cycle is broken the oppressed often become the oppressors, the abused become the abusers and the hurt become the hurters. That can only be done with love.


"Love is really a verb, not a noun. The lover is filled with love. All major religions have this somewhere in their teachings. Sexuality is NOT love. Sexuality is sexuality. It is mother nature's little trick for making surethere are more little species running around. Sexuality is a need, a drive,a hunger, and as such is not under conscious control. Loving well is the achievement of a mature spirit, and while it may have its elements of lust (from luster - to shine), passion, it is always creative, never destructive. Being destructive in the name of love is sacriledge which merits burning at the stake."
http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/vines/3951/sex.html

[jazbug5]

Interesting topic; a lot of great replies which I think I will go back and re-read when less tired and busy.

But for now? In response to what Katwyn just said- isn't it interesting how it's the nutters who always get chosen to be the supposed 'mouthpieces' for a whole movement or belief system? Kind of like how Al Quaeda supposedly speak for all Muslims.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I find this rather tedious.

Something else: people like to go on about how 'Feminism has gone too far', and suggest that 'Feminism' (as if it's like some sort of organised establishment with leaders or something) is responsible for the mess the world is in.
Well: riddle me this. Why is it that young girls in the West have this idea that to be strong and 'empowered' like their MTV role models they have to wiggle their (barely) hotpants-clad butts while striving to look as vacuous as possible? Then, see- they learn that if they look that hot, they can have loads and loads of money for nothing more than making sure they look 'that hot'. The guys who buy into that (and want someone who doesn't have any discernable opinions) then act all shocked when the bitch turns round after a couple of years and takes off with half their worldly possessions. And then all women are manipulative b*tches. And, er... this is all the fault of Feminism. Riiight.

Meanwhile, all over the world women from poorer countries are being trafficked as slaves by organised crime, after being promised better lives and jobs in the West. I'm still trying to work out how Feminism can be blamed for that. I'm sure there must be a way.

Now, recently I've gone through a spate of watching old black and white movies, and you know what? I really think we should get those old scriptwriters from the 1940s and thereabouts out of retirement. (Okay, I know this seems a bit off topic, but indulge me.)
Female stars like Lauren Bacall and Katherine Hepburn (and many others) were really pretty inspirational. Sexy, funny and ballsy women- the Bogarts of the era would doff their hats, indulge in a little verbal jousting with their leading ladies, and everyone had a good time. Apart from the getting shot part, of course. I digress. The point is, in those seemingly unenlightened times, men and women were perfectly capable of liking and respecting each other. And my God, the lines were better! And now what have we in the media? Insipid simulacra, that's what.

So, I dunno. I grew up in a pretty traditional family of oddballs where an unusually large number of the women had been in the Forces in the Second World War or had to raise their kids alone, and the blokes did their thing, respected the women (why wouldn't they?) and everyone got on with it and argued about other crap as equals.

But- what a shock! It wasn't like that everywhere...
I think most of the women here will have been ignored, overruled or belittled because they are female. Actually, all will have been. We're used to it, I think, for the most part, and often it's completely unthinking. I think that that sort of attitude (and many other crappy ones I haven't got the time or wit right now to list) and equally shitty ones displayed by some women do a disservice to us all.

How pointless the 'gender war' is. I hate seeing women getting pushed around and walked over, and I hate seeing men getting pushed around and walked over (though- be fair... a less common occurrence in reality even though you tend to shout more because you notice it more cause you don't expect it neh-neh-neh neeeeeh-neh!).

Anyway, I'm really kind of tired, and didn't mean to write this much.
Sorry, I'll stop now.

[slowpoke]

Fookin' hell I don't think I've seen such a variance in posting views on one topic before....everything from the sublimely equanimical to barely suppressed anger. While much is obvious in the written word there seems to be just as much to read between the lines.

We seem to have moved away from "What is feminism?" to debating the merits of feminism and it's affect on our society, not necessarily a bad thing and probably a more interesting discussion.

Ok, now for my loony leanings....I've started and erased about 5 times now so who know's what's gonna come out:

Personally I reckon it all comes down to personal responsibility. In the current climate there is no personal accountability as everyone is a victim. Individually we may want things to change but individually we aren't prepared to make the changes and we aren't prepared to say "Oi, that's not right." We see many injustices on a daily basis yet most of us just put our heads down and walk on by or put up with it. Who better to affect our own work/family/economic/natural environment than ourselves, yet most of us expect someone else to act on our behalf.

It's really no suprise I suppose with the cult of "self esteem" pervading our society. Why would we have a realistic view of how the world operates when we have been nurtured to think you are just big boned when you are obese, not yet competent when you are inattentive/lazy, opinionated when you are vicious, it's not your fault 'cos you come from a broken home etc. It's not all about you.....but you are the person who can most influence your environment. If you aren't prepared to say or do something about an issue then it can't be that important to you...regardless of your gender.

[Number One]

"We are not able to effect any significant change until we recognise the dynamic immune system by which we continuously manufacture non-change.”

[ManDownUnder]

Anyway, I'm really kind of tired, and didn't mean to write this much.

... glad you did. Thanks! (I ran out of bling for you... but it would heading your way otherwise.).

Jazz - next time we are in the same town I want to meet you. Total respect for your points of view. Very very cool

[PrincessBandit]

sigh, i just like to think that men and women can complEment each other, and either side step up to the mark to perform tasks equally well when required (oh, okay, childbirth aside...)
but that's just me.

[007XX]

Interesting topic; a lot of great replies which I think I will go back and re-read when less tired and busy.

And everything in between

Ok, now for my loony leanings....I've started and erased about 5 times now so who know's what's gonna come out:

.

I really have to meet the two of you at some stage...as I am certain it will make for some of the most insteresting conversations ever!

Love the way you think!