Virago 250. Softening suspension?

[sunhuntin]

while carrying my pillion the other night, i noticed some rather hard bumps which tells me my suspension is set too hard. how do i go about making it not so hard? it didnt affect me much, but i bet it wasnt much fun for her, lol.

[JimO]

probably to soft and bottoming out

[Daffyd]

I would have thought that if it only happens when pillioning that your settings are too soft and bottoming out.

[crashe]

while carrying my pillion the other night, i noticed some rather hard bumps which tells me my suspension is set too hard. how do i go about making it not so hard? it didnt affect me much, but i bet it wasnt much fun for her, lol.

look at the very bottom of your shocks..... you will see that there are different levels to set them at......

You can whip it into the shop to get them changed..... if you cant do it yourself...
It will take 30 seconds to change the settings.......

You have them set for just your weight on the bike......
When you carry a pillion you have to reset them...... especially if you are going for a decent ride...

A short ride up the road and back..... I wouldnt worry......

[sunhuntin]

ok, so they are too soft then. really only noticed it going over driveways and road humps that i couldnt see to avoid [i hate riding at night where theres no street lights!]

it wasnt too much of a ride, but id like things to be comfortable for the pillion, even just for short trips.

[crashe]

In your tool kit you should have a tool to adjust the shocks settings...

You just need to move them up for a pillion depending on how you have them set at the moment...

Ask the shop to show you how to do it..... for future pillions going on the back of your bike

[sunhuntin]

thanks crashe... knew i could count on you. she reckons it was fine, but she was also a tad drunk at the time. i know i noticed, lol.

i have a few things to do tomorrow, so i might drop in on friday morning and see if the boys have time.

[xwhatsit]

You're supposed to bump the preload up a bit when carrying pillions or heavy loads, right? Helps with the bottoming out?

Might've got this backwards, suspension confuses the bejesus out of me.

What I do know is that your shocks will likely only have preload adjustment on them, which probably won't make a hell of a lot of difference. If you're going to be carrying pillions regularly and it bothers you, some better shocks would be in order. Was scouring Ikon's (Koni's) catalogue the other day and I swear I saw Virago (although there's heaps of different models). Would be a shitload better than shagged-out OEM shocks. Expensive, though.

[crashe]

thanks crashe... knew i could count on you. she reckons it was fine, but she was also a tad drunk at the time. i know i noticed, lol.

i have a few things to do tomorrow, so i might drop in on friday morning and see if the boys have time.

No worries......

Just remember to reset them back after your pillion gets off....
Tis also handy to adjust them if you are carry a heavy load when travelling as well..... to save it from 'bottoming out'

[sunhuntin]

forgive the blonde question, but why is it important to reset it?

[crashe]

forgive the blonde question, but why is it important to reset it?

To put it back to how you normally have it just for you when riding the bike..... after dropping off your pillion...... Or do it the next morning......


You will feel the difference, when it is set harder than what you are normally used to......

[Bass]

You will feel the difference, when it is set harder than what you are normally used to......

Sorry but you won't. Raising the preload does not stiffen the springs - only changing the springs can do that.
It simply changes the ride height.
When the pillion gets on, the springs compress more than for a solo load and as observed the shocks can bottom out. Increasing the preload just raises the bike up a bit so the shocks won't bottom out.
When the pillion gets off, the bike stands a bit taller and the preload is reduced to get back to normal ride height.
But riding solo with pillion preload on, does NOT make the ride any harsher, (except in the one case I have seen where the preload was so high that the shocks were Topping out).

However, if you had said "when it is set HIGHER than what you are normally used to" I would agree with every word.

Pedantic??

Probably, but also the first step to understanding how suspension works.

[jrandom]

The thing that I find most amazing is that someone would put a pillion on a Virago 250 in anything but the gravest extreme of transport emergencies!



Did it manage to reach 100kph on the flat under such loading?

Poor little thing.

I doubt that any twiddling of preload will eliminate the issue of a motorcycle carrying probably more than twice the weight it was designed to. You really need stiffer springs.

...

Actually, you really need a proper bike.

[vifferman]

Good try, but no cigar.
It doesn't change the ride height - only a shock with ride height adjustment via a threaded eye at one end can do that. It does change the sag, which is how much the spring compresses due to the weight of the bike or bike plus rider.
What it does is partially compress the spring via a rotating collar, either on a threaded shaft, or via a series of bumps on the collar. So now the spring is effectively shorter, and when the bike goes over a bump, the movement of the wheel has to exert more force to compress the spring. The spring's not any stiffer, but now acting in a region of compression that it would normally take a bigger bump (or more load) for it to be acting in.

Eventually, you get to a load or bump that will completely bottom out the spring, regardless of preload. If this happens frequently, the spring is too soft for the application.

[Bass]

Good try, but no cigar.
It doesn't change the ride height - only a shock with ride height adjustment via a threaded eye at one end can do that. It does change the sag, which is how much the spring compresses due to the weight of the bike or bike plus rider.
What it does is partially compress the spring via a rotating collar, either on a threaded shaft, or via a series of bumps on the collar. So now the spring is effectively shorter, and when the bike goes over a bump, the movement of the wheel has to exert more force to compress the spring. The spring's not any stiffer, but now acting in a region of compression that it would normally take a bigger bump (or more load) for it to be acting in. This is the flaw in your logic
Eventually, you get to a load or bump that will completely bottom out the spring, regardless of preload. If this happens frequently, the spring is too soft for the application.

Sorry but mostly bollix
The preload usually cannot compress the spring because the other end is attached to the swingarm which is free to move. You crank one end in - the other moves out.
What you have expressed is the commonest misconception I have encountered. Yes it changes the static sag but that is only because the static sag is measured with the shock fully extended and so the preload can compress the spring at that one point only. So while it adjusts the amount that the spring compresses due to imposed weight, it is at that one point in the shock extension only.
How to illustrate this? Let's assume for the moment that your bike DOES NOT have a rising rate linkage on the back (unusual these days but humour me for the sake of argument)
1. adjust preload to desired value
2. add static load (bags) until shock just starts to compress.
3. add rider and measure shock compression
4. remove rider and add more static weight so that shock is significantly compressed
5. repeat 3. above
6. do the whole thing again several times with different preload settings
You will find that adding the rider produces the same amount of EXTRA compression regardless of static loads or preload for that matter. i.e. the EXTRA compression due to rider weight is unaffected by preload. This of necessity, also means that a given bump will produce the same deflection regardless of other adjustments.

As stated the practical effect is to adjust the ride height. It does not and cannot stiffen or soften the spring - on this we agree - and so of necessity, it cannot change the length of the spring for a given load (Hookes Law)

Some after market shocks and some OME ones too, have a separate length adjustment to match the shock to the bike geometry so that the shock sweeps through the correct operating range as the rear wheel does likewise. It should only be necessary to set it once. After that has been done, the primary ride height adjustment is the preload (for Joe Average)