Lost in the rush

[James Deuce]

Jim2s on the money.

Just to make it clear, I include myself in the "needs more work" category.

[warewolf]

And warewolf, speed has everything to do with it - if you turn looose incempetent drivers on the road then you want to make sure they don't plough into each other at too high a speed, makes more of a mess donchaknow.

We are not debating Newtonian physics. Sorry but those in the anti-speed 'industry' (and it is run as a business) always trot that one out in a lame attempt to divert discussion away from the real issues.

We don't want to turn loose incompetent drivers. I don't care how much it costs. I don't care how many people forfeit their licence 'cos they can't drive well enough. I don't care how many people are offended at the thought. It is argued that 'not speeding is more important than time, money, etc etc 'cos it will save lives'. I'm saying divert all your enthusiasm, justification and expenditure (revenue?) spent persecuting people who exceed some arbitrarily set number on a meter to making the roads safer instead.

[warewolf]

In the absence of a speed limit, most drivers drive at a speed that reflects their competence. Especially the experienced but incompetent ones. They feel nervous going faster. But if you put in a speed limit , Doris feels obliged to drive up to it. Or at 90 anyway. But take away the limit and she'll slow down to 70.

This is one of those things that is well known and studied. Those in the anti-speed 'industry' really like to keep that one quiet, particularly the bit about putting the speed limits UP reduces the number of crashes for the reasons you stated. I alluded to this in post #5:

And who's to blame for that one? The roading authorities, as pointed out in the article. You constantly have the state saying "100km/h is OK, 101km/h we'll pwn your arse!" thereby absolving the driver of personal responsibility. "I can drive like shit as long as it is 100km/h or lower."

[Big Dave]

Well, by some margin the most common cause of near misses and possible accidents for me is distracted drivers - mainly on cell phones or texting.

[Ixion]

Well, by some margin the most common (indeed , the only) cause of near misses and possible accidents for me is my own incompetence or carelessness. Everything else is just a hazard, my job to deal with it.

[warewolf]

Well, by some margin the most common cause of near misses and possible accidents for me is distracted drivers - mainly on cell phones or texting.

Too bloody right. Half a dozen times in the last month I've been following/approaching a car ahead. Suddenly the behaviour changes, goes from steady to erratic, all over the show. Yep, in each case they'd just picked up the cell phone.

[warewolf]

Well, by some margin the most common (indeed , the only) cause of near misses and possible accidents for me is my own incompetence or carelessness. Everything else is just a hazard, my job to deal with it.

Too true. However that doesn't mean that we should devolve to an unskilled free-for-all.

[Big Dave]

Well, by some margin the most common (indeed , the only) cause of near misses and possible accidents for me is my own incompetence or carelessness.

The fact that they are misses means I suffer no such malaise.

Apart from that - bullshit. Tell it to someone t-boned through a red light or waiting in traffic and got rear ended.

[Big Dave]

Too true. However that doesn't mean that we should devolve to an unskilled free-for-all.

Spartans had the right idea.

[Hitcher]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...light=Spaaarta

[Ixion]

The fact that they are misses means I suffer no such malaise.

Apart from that - bullshit. Tell it to someone t-boned through a red light or waiting in traffic and got rear ended.

Mine are all misses, too. Never said it was easy. I no longer assume that red lights mean anything at all, and rear ending is a very good reason to lane split.

[scumdog]

Actually, if you abolished speed limits completely, the incompetent drivers would drive slower.

In the absence of a speed limit, most drivers drive at a speed that reflects their competence. Especially the experienced but incompetent ones. They feel nervous going faster. But if you put in a speed limit , Doris feels obliged to drive up to it. Or at 90 anyway. But take away the limit and she'll slow down to 70.

Boi racer will drive too fast, cos he doesn't know WHAT he's doing. But that's cos of inexperience, so you have a speed limit for him, like the 70kph one for 6L. (which does mean P plates, yes).

So now you will have roads littered with 'competent' driver - Doris's doing 70kph and Boi-Racer doing 135kph. (when he gets his Full Licence)

What a delightful mixture.

Guaranteed to make for smooth flow of traffic and safe driving....

[Ixion]

The difference to now being ?
Except that Doris won't be stressed out thinking she should go faster.

[swbarnett]

All this talk about the causes of accidents is dancing around the real issue. The fact of the matter is that we all make mistakes and we are all, from time to time, on the recieving end of another driver's mistake. The ONLY thing that will ever keep you safe is to take responsibility for your own safety and drive with a decent Margin For Error. And the ONLY way to instill this into the driving population is through driver education with emphasis on hazard identification and vehicle control.

[Maffoo]

my god there is some BS in this thread

i spent 8 years as a tow truck driver in Auckland... & the way i see it, the biggest cause of accidents is impatience
impatience makes people speed, overtake in stupid places, txt/talk on phone while driving, drink & drive, take corners too fast, eat while driving...

in fact, just about any accident that does happen, could have been avoided if the person who caused said accident had just been a bit more patient.. in less of a hurry...
pull over to use the phone & eat
slow down a bit
wait a bit longer for that gap
dont overtake there... just wait a little while longer, you'll get a better chance soon enough
catch a bus, or walk to a taxi when pissed... might take you longer to get home... but be patient, you'll get there...

see what i mean?