Has Motorcycling New Zealand lost all relevance?

[idleidolidyll]

I know Jack shit about racing, rules what ever
I have just read this whole thread and have one question
idleidolidyll

are you for real?

If you are an example of the people who run the sport

then I want nothing to do with it

you say you've read the thread then ask if i'm an example of those who run the sport?

obviously you either lied and didn't read the thread or you just don't understand the debate.

yep, i'm very real and not afraid to point a finger at stupidity even when i know the people involved

if you'd been a part of racing, you'd have known of the discontent with MNZ simmering for decades. That's pretty much why BEARs started.

I'd hoped it would change under sane leadership; it hasn't and that's a damn shame

[Burrt Badger]

Idle. Ducati had to threaten to take their toys away to get a 200cc advantage over the Jappas so that they could continue their larger capacity domination of Superbikes. Watch this year as yet again Ducati will win the title because of their capacity advantage.
MNZ does a pretty good job, not perfect, but pretty good. As I said in my first reply, it real easy to sit on the ouitside and piss in, but it take character to actually stand up and try to improve things. You held a position in an alternative style of racing. If you really believe in what you say, then stand for the MNZ Board and try to do something for the Sport as a whole, not just the tiny part of it in which you are involved.

[Subike]

OK
you asume i have not read this whole thread. well I have thank you
and the question stands
are you for real
you make your self sound like you are a god or somethin, next to the abuse given to those who post vallad arguments against you, you choice of words in certain posts is not really what I call respectfull
Robert for one, who you abused just after he place a valid post
do I give more examples
Mate if you were in my club, I would kick you sorry ass out the door and ban you soley on your attitude toward others opinions
this whole thread could have been handled a whole lot better
and I am no scoller or professional, and do lack understanding of the racing rules etc... but
I think you are just plan arrogant!

[GaZBur]

So - what is the problem?

The way I see it is the rules have been brought in to remove Motard bikes out of the other formulas - which I can see is reasonable. The problem is that bikes that are not motard but really a sit up naked sportster type are eliminated as well. That does not seem right.
As for different lines it is true depending on the track as far as I can see.
I am not overly competitive so starting at the back of the field I see the difference in style.
At Teretonga for example your Motards take the same lines as regular bikes. In the first race some of the mid-field guys started trying to put thier leg out for the first couple of laps but stopped when they realised they were being outbraked and passed on the outside. We could have raced with anyone else without danger.
At Wyndham though the street circuit with 90 degree corners things were different and there would have been carnage if they ran with other classes.

Maybe the question should be how do you get the non motard bikes back into F-3 ?

[Drew]

Seems I don't have them

Dunno how to get the picture in a quote, but I rode a K2 Gixxer thou, and it would very often get that sideways when applying lots of throttle, it would at the same time, give me a SLOWER lap time.

ahh so, it aint the bikes it's the style?

so why ban the bikes and not the style?

mind you, banning the style would ban Rossi too and that would be too obvious even for MNZ. Easier to do it through the back door with stupid little rules.

You god complexed COCK, Rossi does trail the rear wheel in SOMETIMES, not in any way the same degree as a motard, and not sacrificing LOTS of entry speed in the process. Besides, how's Rossi getting on lately, on the tyres he wants, with his team mate on the tyres he didn't want?

I have experienced motards in the same class as my road bike many times, post classics pre 89, they were lumped in with us for lack of space anywhere else, I very nearly collected the FASTEST of them into Higgins at Manfield, due to him being considderably slower INTO the turn.

Again when I went F3 on an SV, where the bike had been crashed by another rider, so I missed qualifying, again there was nearly a coming together, this time in turn one at Manfield lap two, and by luck alone did I realise the speed differential mid turn and ran OFF THE TRACK on exit avoiding him.

Most recent was at the Sound of Thunder this year, I ran straight into the rear wheel of ? (dont know his first name) Veitch (cant spell his surname), and went straight over the handle bars to go lye down in the dirt. I fully accept responsability for this, I misjudged how much quicker I was going, but consider for a moment, I was about to pass him into third postition, on a slower bike, HOW THE FUCK IS IT JUST AS FAST A WAY TO RIDE? To qualify this, I beat him in every other race we entered together, and we were both always top ten.

Only once have I raced closely with a motard, at Taupo against "the mad Maori", (no idea of his real name), where the lines were similar. He was demon quick, right behind me, right behind Jimmy (Whitetrash). He rode knee out style, unlike most of them.

[Buddha#81:Me]

if you'd been a part of racing, you'd have known of the discontent with MNZ simmering for decades. That's pretty much why BEARs started.

Geez man you seem to be living in the past, being the BEARS movement. Other than the Sound of Thunder the Chrischurch Bears club survives on Bucket and Pre '82 entries.

$ for $ a jappa road bike makes a better race bike.......Chook chasers are probally the other way around.

[Ivan]

ya think i give a shit?

Im Sorry about your back and I didn not mean to offend you ok.

I was just trying to put my point accross

[scrivy]

Different lines.........

This applies to the sidecars also.
On my old piece of shite, I take totally different lines compared to the new LCR sidecars coming into NZ. Ask my passenger Sidecar Bob if we've been 'taken out' by some ridiculous lines of the long bikes! But racing is racing, and different machines in the same class make it interesting for the spectators. Yes it is dangerous, but who gets to say whos right and whos wrong?? Me for going faster around corners or under brakes on an outdated machine, or the newer, more expensive machines designed for highspeed tracks of the world?? Should one of our models be ousted?

Why can't MNZ hold a conference that isn't in a far away location (out of reach to most members), and actually debate the classes, formulas etc with the actual riders????? When was this last done? When were us riders ever consulted on issues for our classes?
Wouldn't this point us all in the right direction?
Scrivy

[Drew]

Im Sorry about your back and I didn not mean to offend you ok.

I was just trying to put my point accross

Dont apologise, you said nothing wrong. His gripe is unfounded considering the reason for rule change, uninformed for the same reason, and just a general cry about nothing except the stupid hasbeen couldn't go out and get in the way of F3 racers, point made when one looks to see how many times Glen Williams has been beaten while on board his SV.

[Ivan]

So how many of these fatalities were caused by Motard riders taking different lines? Motorcycle racing IS a dangerous sport! Riding on the ROAD is dangerous too. Same with sidecars...should long chairs and short ones be separated too?

No I didnt say it was motards fautls Im saying the risk of a serious crash is high because of bigger hadlebars, If you readwhat I had to say were motards brushing handlebars on you isnt safe

They did it because riders were sayign we dont want ot share the track with them and the majority of good motard riders were devouwerd(sp) by the bad ones who were hanging out and I know of a few incidents of riders having a motard flick the arse half bend and slam a F3 bike and send the F3 bike into the dirt,

Sadly I dotn want to share the track with a motard they have there own class and they run there own meetings if they can share track with me can i take my biek into motards to inialte them cause my 93 RS is a CR125 engine

[Clivoris]

What a great stir. I only started racing F3 last Actrix Winter Series so I didn't get to experience motards in the field. What I remember hearing most often from F3 riders prior to this were problems with some motards outbraking into slower corners, then taking lines that obstructed the street-bikes from getting through the corner in normal fashion with their normal speed. The Street bike would then get past the motard to have it all happen again at the next tight corner. My reaction at the time was "If they are gonna fuck up my fun I want them out of there".
If nothing else this thread has made me stop and think about this reaction. There is real merit to having diversity in the F3 class and keeping the innovation going. The idea seems to work for evolution. Evolve or die etc. The crunch comes for me, when I realise that I don't want to race like a motard rider or ride a motard (am I being seduced by an unsubstantiated stereo-type here?), I want to ride my 4 cyclinder dinasaur as fast as I can. This might be easier for me without motards scaring me or blocking my preferred line.
What you have done III is raised the question of whether I would be a better racer if I learned to cope with motards? Even further down the road, might I enjoy the battles with the motards? I don't know and my understanding is that MNZ have legislated that club meetings can not use special regs to get around this, so unless something changes I am unlikely to find out.
An observation that probably doesn't add much of value to the debate occurred while doing some corner marshalling at the Manfield hairpin at a track day a while back. There were three motard riders out in the medium group circulating reasonably quickly and making great sport out of backing into the hairpin and carving up road riders. I know this was sport for them as I could hear the hooting and I also spoke to them after the session about the appropriateness of their behaviour. Any rider on any bike can ride in an unsafe manner, my piss-weak point is that I suspect that the ability to do this kind of stuff (more easily than in my road bike) is part of the attraction of motards and riding like this will happen. Does that constitute a safety issue or an added challenge to spice up racing?
I am strangely attracted to your argument that it is racing, and the winner is the rider who crosses the finish line first. I also want to be able to have my fun on the track without "extra" drama. I think you may have shifted me to a 60/40 balance. I can feel myself slipping off the fence.
I would be really keen to hear from geezers wot have raced both types of bike in F3. Somebody Sully60

[Ivan]

Dont apologise, you said nothing wrong. His gripe is unfounded considering the reason for rule change, uninformed for the same reason, and just a general cry about nothing except the stupid hasbeen couldn't go out and get in the way of F3 racers, point made when one looks to see how many times Glen Williams has been beaten while on board his SV.

Im not apoligising about whatI said ive got nothing to be sorry about there im saying sorry he feels so left out because of his back my dads left out because of a bucket crash and got stuffed up and cant race a bike because of back and foot injurys but i dont see him having a bitch on the internet

Im ratherpissed offnow reading through with his attitude to other forum members trying to say there piece basically he believes MNZ who put on a fucken good nationals series is shit

[Robert Taylor]

Im Sorry about your back and I didn not mean to offend you ok.

I was just trying to put my point accross

As were all of us Ivan but dont forget we all had the temerity to express opinions not in agreement and therefore incurred his vile wrath. We should all apologise profusely and offer reperations....

[FROSTY:Me]

So - what is the problem?

The way I see it is the rules have been brought in to remove Motard bikes out of the other formulas - which I can see is reasonable. The problem is that bikes that are not motard but really a sit up naked sportster type are eliminated as well. That does not seem right.

Mate I'm happy to stand corrected but Im pretty sure even a GSthou still qualifies under this rule.
I'd measure the bar heights of the naked bikes you'd concider racing. Bet they would qualify

[scrivy]

basically he believes MNZ who put on a fucken good nationals series is shit

I don't want to bash MNZ on this thread, but (please excuse my naivety), what did MNZ do this year to promote the series?

Bernard racing organised the Aussies and Yanks didn't he? Bloody great too Brian!
The new LCR sidecars brought into NZ weren't organised by MNZ, but did improve numbers/quality/apperances.
Did MNZ make Craig Sherriffs pull finger and ride like a demon?
Did they buy Sam Smith a new bike or give him the learn? (Prior to his crash - he was on fire).
Did MNZ get Mr Rocket Bugden to NZ?
All of the above events made this year a better year for spectators, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it was MNZ's doing.
Ivan, I've been around for over 2 decades in the sport, and I can see it going downhill fast!
Many years ago we had vastly larger numbers of spectators.
Now its not even promoted as a national series - its now a Superbike series! Do you race a superbike Ivan? I don't, neither does Glen Williams. Infact, on the NZSBK website, they don't even include sidecars in their classes for the series!! Hold on, I pay the same fees as all the other classes, but I can't tell my sponsor I race in a national event!! What the f@@k??
Did you lose your prizemoney for the benefit of advertising? Do you think you got value for your losses?
I won all the South Island races, and yet as like you, I didn't see any of our class on TV. Considering that the NZ sidecar class now has the fastest sidecar in the world, (and the most expensive race machine currently on the track), don't you think that that would be a good enough reason for promotion on TV?
MNZ do need to listen to the voices of the people they are volunteering to help. They need to hold workshops with competitors!!