Go Labour!!!

[idleidolidyll]

OK, smart guy - explain the difference between "subsidising" someone $1.5b and giving it to them.

Then, if yer not too tired from all that thinking, tell us who else is supposed to skin up the money for IT infrastructure. Or perhaps, you're one of those Greenie "great leap backwards" morons who'd have us all living in caves, knitting our own yoghurt.

be a little clearer; i'm not interested in explaining the entire world to you.

capitalist enterprises reserve the right to charge like wounded bulls for the investments their money buys. I object to them making massive profits from the very people who fund their enterprises.

for our money:
they get a new product to charge us for
we get nothing but charged for it

[idleidolidyll]

This is as vital to the country as railways were in the 1800's

perhaps it is but if the public pays for it, the public should own it.
i have no issue stumping up with the money as long as it doesn't just mean foreign owned companies with no NZ social conscience get to make huge profits from our money by charging us for the very thing we paid for again and again and again

[Flatcap]

Capitalism is a social failure when the money of the poor and middle classes are used to increase the profits of the rich and privelaged.

Yes - capitalism is the worst economic system, apart from all the rest.

[Flatcap]

'Conservatism' cloaked in a thin veil of compassion has so far slaughtered or caused the deaths of tens of millions of human beings and the terrorism of many millions more and that slaughter and terrorism is continued today by the creatures behind the US government you seem to so admire. Conservatism should be identified as it is in fact: intolerance and abuse.

Nah - you are referring to religion.

It is possible to be an atheist conservative

[idleidolidyll]

Compassionete conservatism. First time I've heard of the Oxymoron Party.

Where do they rule?


Skyryder

They rule in the land of the brave, the home of the free; a place that should more clearly be identified as the land of bullshit and institutionalized greed.
This is a place where the most violent acts of mankind are celebrated, publicised and profited from massively but where the leadership roundly condems much public discussion and advertising of mankinds most basic nature: sex and reproduction, sex and pleasure.

The land is snake oil incarnate and a model of 'legitimised' abuse the world should identify clearly as one to avoid at all costs. the term 'compassionate consevative' is just another in a long long long line of propagandist labels designed to sell abuse and hatred to suckers and those who suffer under it.

[Pussy]

Nah - you are referring to religion.

It is possible to be an atheist conservative

Haha! Love your work!

[idleidolidyll]

Nah - you are referring to religion.

It is possible to be an atheist conservative

yes, i am referring to religion to a great extent but although it is possible to be an atheist conservative, that doesn't make conservatism any easier to swallow for those suffering under it.

of course much of the problem is that propogandists have manipulated the very meanings of these political words so much that many arguments can be completely nullified by the clear agreement of terminology.

I've pointed to the 'practice' of the term in the US, I'd be interested to hear what propoganda the followers of the term offer to justify it.

[Robert Taylor]

No, you are completely intolerant and your advocacy of fascism, heartless conservatism and condemnation of the poor and disadvantaged here identify your vain, but common among conservatives, belief that you are superior and 'know whats best' for them attitude.

'Conservatism' cloaked in a thin veil of compassion has so far slaughtered or caused the deaths of tens of millions of human beings and the terrorism of many millions more and that slaughter and terrorism is continued today by the creatures behind the US government you seem to so admire. Conservatism should be identified as it is in fact: intolerance and abuse.

It is clear that your interpretation of compassionate conservatism is somewhat different to mine. Its therefore unfortunate that you have instantly identified such a mentality with the perverse way the yanks run their society.
In fact some of our views coincide, especially with respect to how overseas bankers and multinationals dictate how we live. I believe in a fair deal for everybody, especially the working and middle classes who are being screwed big time. I just refuse to believe that full blown socialism and handouts is the way to run a society.
You accuse me of defining by labels and of intolerance, may I suggest in response that your posts demonstrate ''loud'' intolerance of those who dont agree with you. Whilst at the same time lowering the decorum by littering your posts with aggressive expletives, theres nothing at all clever in that and its really rather sad. I think you should take some time out to think that it is possible to both hold conservative beliefs and believe in a fair deal.

[Skyryder]

be a little clearer; i'm not interested in explaining the entire world to you.

capitalist enterprises reserve the right to charge like wounded bulls for the investments their money buys. I object to them making massive profits from the very people who fund their enterprises.

for our money:
they get a new product to charge us for
we get nothing but charged for it

Could not have said it better myself. Trouble is so much PR goes into deluding the general public by 'think tank' types that we actually 'believe' that we are better off.

Skyryder

[idleidolidyll]

Nah - you are referring to religion.

It is possible to be an atheist conservative

So do compassionate conservatives really exist in the literal sense rather than the propagandist?

sure, just as do compassionate communists, compassionate atheists, compassionate capitalists etc.

Robert Taylor doesn't strike me as one though: his constant attacks on the poor and underprivelaged without equal condemnation of abusive wealthy and privelaged indicates that he is not actually compassionate for any but his own, just that he has an agenda best covered by the propagandist term "compassionate conservatism".

[Flatcap]

No, you are completely intolerant and your advocacy of fascism, heartless conservatism and condemnation of the poor and disadvantaged here identify your vain, but common among conservatives, belief that you are superior and 'know whats best' for them attitude.

I certainly 'know whats best' when the poor and disadvantaged are spending my tax dollars....and I wouldn't expect any difference if our positions were reversed.

[Flatcap]

So do compassionate conservatives really exist in the literal sense rather than the propagandist?

sure, just as do compassionate communists, compassionate atheists, compassionate capitalists etc.

Robert Taylor doesn't strike me as one though: his constant attacks on the poor and underprivelaged without equal condemnation of abusive wealthy and privelaged indicates that he is not actually compassionate for any but his own, just that he has an agenda best covered by the propagandist term "compassionate conservatism".

I can't speak for Robert, but I find the uber-rich just as annoying as the destitute, just with better accessories

[Flatcap]

if you would like to debate this with Helen herself, she is manning her caravan round the corner at the Sandringham shops as I type.....

[Pussy]

So do compassionate conservatives really exist in the literal sense rather than the propagandist?

sure, just as do compassionate communists, compassionate atheists, compassionate capitalists etc.

Robert Taylor doesn't strike me as one though: his constant attacks on the poor and underprivelaged without equal condemnation of abusive wealthy and privelaged indicates that he is not actually compassionate for any but his own, just that he has an agenda best covered by the propagandist term "compassionate conservatism".

Do you know Robert Taylor?
I first met/had dealings with Robert circa 1998, when he was VERY early in the process of getting his business growing. He was easy to find... he was ALWAYS at work, I have spoken to him on the phone at 2330hrs, you guessed it.. at work!
The attack on Robert's "wealth" is VERY unfounded. He has done what most successful kiwis have done... got off his arse and worked his butt off to get where he's got, not sat back and expected a free lunch. No-one has handed Robert anything, he's earned it.
Over the years I think it's reasonably safe to say that I have developed a friendship with Robert, initially through professional dealings. We have had many discussions. I can quite categorically assure you that Robert is NO FASCIST. Him and I share similar views... I have no problem whatsoever giving anyone who needs it a hand up... but the handout socialist regime is buggering this country.
Before you attack my social standing or profession, I chose to be an agricultural pilot from a very young age, and through WORKING at my trade and getting off my arse, I achieved my goal. No student loan for this kid, I paid for it all as I went.
You seem to take a dictatorial attitude to anyone who doesnt embrace your propoganda. I respect anyone else's opinion, no matter how un-informed it is.

[Mully]

if you would like to debate this with Helen herself, she is manning her caravan round the corner at the Sandringham shops as I type.....

Well, what else would Helen be doing with it??