"At least she gave it a go..."

[Owl]

I wouldn't go so far as sterilisation, but a strategically located padlock might help to resolve the situation.

I’d imagine her associates would be all too familiar with picking locks!

[Number One]

Oddly enough, both National and Labour are looking at intra-uterine testing to "prevent unnecessary expense" to society by testing for any number of genetic defects in the womb and requiring abortion should your unborn child be under a predetermined level of "viability".

National have also promised to close facilities for educating those with an intellectual disability and to prevent the intellectually disabled from being "mainstreamed". Not that I agree with mainstreaming.

This sounds a lot creepy Jim!

As for closing down facilities for those with intellectual disabilities and stopping mainstreaming...really???

Firstly on the bent of intra-uterine testing...I can say without much doubt that my boy would've been deemed too expensive! There is no way I would've aborted him to save the state some pingas though!!!!

On Mainstreaming...my boy requires mainstreaming...if he were to be put into a special needs facility he wouldn't have the opportunity to learn what he needs to off the NT's he'd have access too at a 'normal' school.

I do hope this is just rumours that have been hinted at Jim....can you provide more context or reference to this info??

[Forest]

This sounds a lot creepy Jim!

As for closing down facilities for those with intellectual disabilities and stopping mainstreaming...really???

No. His whole post was a clever troll.

No Government in NZ will ever require people to have abortions. Hell - just permitting people to choose elective abortions was (and still is) controversial by itself.

[Number One]

Damn him and his clever trolling...

[Winston001]

Ms King, accoridng to reports, has produced six children, and signally failed in the most elemental duties to all of them

Reportedly she has never held a job

Despite that she drives around in a $37000 XR8.

I have never not held a job, but I can't afford a $37000 car. Because I pay such high taxes to support Ms King and her like. Sadly, she is far from exceptional. A trawl through South Auckland could probably produce 100,000 just like her. All living a very comfortable life, even a luxurious one, on the proceeds of the sweat and toil of you and I. There's a word for such things - can't think of it, on the tip of my tongue. Begins with a 'P'. Parasailing? No, that's not quite it. Tch, it's on the tip of my tongue.

Can some one please tell me what exactly Ms King returns to society in exchange for the money I am forced to contribute toward her life style?

EEeerrrkkkkk - choking on my weetbix here - surely this is a fraudulent post from our fellow traveller, or a troll cunningly thrust forth to bring out the right-wingers for later "re-education"....

Xion while I applaud and totally agree with your elegant words, is not Ms King the logical result of the socialist nanny state? The only thing missing in NZ is for state ownership and control of the means of production, for a communist state to exist. And we'd be surrounded by Macksyna Kings......no-one would work....

[Ixion]

EEeerrrkkkkk - choking on my weetbix here - surely this is a fraudulent post from our fellow traveller, or a troll cunningly thrust forth to bring out the right-wingers for later "re-education"....

Xion while I applaud and totally agree with your elegant words, is not Ms King the logical result of the socialist nanny state? The only thing missing in NZ is for state ownership and control of the means of production, for a communist state to exist. And we'd be surrounded by Macksyna Kings......no-one would work....

Decidely not. In a communist state the Ms Kings would be packed off to a labour camp so fast their Gucci clad feet would not touch the ground. Where they would work, since the alternative would be not to eat. Or, simply be shot. Personally, I prefer the latter since I think it improbable that Ms King can ever be re-educated so as to be a contributing member of society.

She can hardly be the product of a "socialist nanny state" since we have not has a state that could be called even vaguely socialist within her lifetime.

The social welfare system which she so extensively abuses was implemented to help workers. Not shirkers. It was the successive liberal-capitalist governments of the last 40 years that have turned it into the universal trough.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. If you are unable to work (old, young, sick, disabled) you will be taken care of. If you can work, then you jolly well will do so.

Those who show themselves consistently unwilling to contribute to society should be given no expectation of being allowed to remain within it.

[RantyDave]

The social welfare system which she so extensively abuses was implemented to help workers. Not shirkers.

I have been intermittently interested in this since moving to NZ nearly ten years ago. See, for a year or two (depending on how you count) I was quite the merry dole bludger in the UK and hence have a reasonable level of knowledge around the bludging lifestyle and all it's accoutrements, culture and challenges. In all this time, the world-of-the-sponger failed singularly to become even remotely attractive as a long term option. It, in short, fucking sucked from about day one and I was very happy to (long story) finally manage to crawl out from it and get (a) a job and (b) something that actually halfway resembles a career.

Then I move to New Zealand and discover there are families ... generations deep ... who have never gone to work. There are the Kahui clan, putting half a dozen adults under one roof and enjoying the sharp end of $100k a year off the state. There are hamlets up north where people move specifically to enjoy the dole/dpb lifestyle. Shit, the woman who lived next to me (2 brm house, by the sea, in Wellington) was considering moving to her single motherness to somewhere with better surfing. Yet Mr/Mrs newly married, both with degrees, in their late 20's, probably about to pop their first sprog are fucking scraping by to make ends meet.

So it's the educated, trying hard, raising the next generation to be really nice people who are paying for the minority to smoke P, hit their kids, and sit on the deck drinking piss all day. How the fuck has this happened?

That's it. I don't really have anything sensible to say.

Dave

[rainman]

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. If you are unable to work (old, young, sick, disabled) you will be taken care of. If you can work, then you jolly well will do so.

Those who show themselves consistently unwilling to contribute to society should be given no expectation of being allowed to remain within it.

Ixion for Prime Minister!

The only problem is where d'ya put the buggers who won't play along. You can't export them, no-one else wants them. Jail is a bit harsh and Victorian (debtors prison?) not to mention expensive. "Work for the dole" schemes are flawed unless the economy is awash with work. Forced sterilisation or other means of stopping people from is, as pointed out above, more of a Nazi tactic than the NZ culture would be happy with. Chucking them out on the street to live in cardboard boxes and fend for themselves just ups crime and violence.

All collective systems are open to exploitation by the lazy and become a race to the bottom as soon as they become too big for all of the participants to be able to look each other in the eye and say "Oi!" when people aren't pulling their weight. Even small family units are often disfunctional, despite there being a theoretical strong familial bond.

We've been trying to solve the problem of how to manage societal groups for hundreds of years (if not thousands), without that much progress if we're honest. Lately I'd have to say we're more lost than ever. Technology has advanced, but has society? Has humanity?

[Manxman]

I have been intermittently interested in this since moving to NZ nearly ten years ago. See, for a year or two (depending on how you count) I was quite the merry dole bludger in the UK and hence have a reasonable level of knowledge around the bludging lifestyle and all it's accoutrements, culture and challenges. In all this time, the world-of-the-sponger failed singularly to become even remotely attractive as a long term option. It, in short, fucking sucked from about day one and I was very happy to (long story) finally manage to crawl out from it and get (a) a job and (b) something that actually halfway resembles a career.

Then I move to New Zealand and discover there are families ... generations deep ... who have never gone to work. There are the Kahui clan, putting half a dozen adults under one roof and enjoying the sharp end of $100k a year off the state. There are hamlets up north where people move specifically to enjoy the dole/dpb lifestyle. Shit, the woman who lived next to me (2 brm house, by the sea, in Wellington) was considering moving to her single motherness to somewhere with better surfing. Yet Mr/Mrs newly married, both with degrees, in their late 20's, probably about to pop their first sprog are fucking scraping by to make ends meet.

So it's the educated, trying hard, raising the next generation to be really nice people who are paying for the minority to smoke P, hit their kids, and sit on the deck drinking piss all day. How the fuck has this happened?

That's it. I don't really have anything sensible to say.

Dave

Mate, that was very sensible, and true. Good rant, Ranty.

[Number One]

Mate, that was very sensible, and true. Good rant, Ranty.

+1

I nod in complete agreement Dave

[RantyDave]

"Work for the dole" schemes are flawed unless the economy is awash with work.

They also cause enormous backfires. Consider, for example, me sitting on the dole in the UK. Now, I had a degree in Engineering (the government, in their wisdom, told more or less anyone that the country really really needed engineers), had there been a work for dole scheme then I would have been forced into ... I dunno ... stacking shelves. Not that there's anything wrong with stacking shelves for a living, unless you're working to some obscenely low percentage of possible productivity, hence a low percentage of overall benefit to the planet in general, and if we're going to be just rude about it a low percentage of the possible tax take.

Actually, there was a form of work for dole but it was a piece of piss to avoid.

Anyway, point is that I eventually got my shit sorted out, joined the working world and started getting taxed witless. Until I left the country to bring my experienced, productive, tax paying and expensively educated arse over here to help pay for Ngati Fuckwit buy a rugby team or whatever they're into this week.

From which we have two key takeaways:

* Forcing people to work in a less productive role than they are able to is daft for all involved.
* Immigration is actually a good thing.

Dave

[Winston001]

Decidely not. In a communist state the Ms Kings would be packed off to a labour camp so fast their Gucci clad feet would not touch the ground. Where they would work, since the alternative would be not to eat. Or, simply be shot. Personally, I prefer the latter since I think it improbable that Ms King can ever be re-educated so as to be a contributing member of society.

She can hardly be the product of a "socialist nanny state" since we have not has a state that could be called even vaguely socialist within her lifetime.

The social welfare system which she so extensively abuses was implemented to help workers. Not shirkers. It was the successive liberal-capitalist governments of the last 40 years that have turned it into the universal trough.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. If you are unable to work (old, young, sick, disabled) you will be taken care of. If you can work, then you jolly well will do so.

Those who show themselves consistently unwilling to contribute to society should be given no expectation of being allowed to remain within it.

Mmmm.....but the line between fascism and communism is obliterated by this degree of totalitarianism. Yes, you are right that such a State would deal - harshly - with the likes of the Kahui underclass. However the cost to the individual is freedom - the loss of civil rights, the rise of officialdom - those who assess the ability to work become extremely powerful.

So I don't know the right answer to our current crop of professional bludgers. We don't see as many of them in the provinces, perhaps because they would stick out, and maybe because there is full employment at present.