And they wonder why some are leaving...

[Conquiztador]

Over 20 years ago I came to NZ after years of moving from country to country. Liked what I did see but had no plans of staying. Japan was my next goal, then Canada to ski...

Well, then this girl came in to my life (2 weeks before I was to leave...). Now after 6 years as single dad with 4 boys I am getting to a stage where the travel plans are sounding better and better again.

I like NZ and my kids love it here. Their mum is here. But as single parent I am paying all the bills. And even if I am paid over the NZ average, I have nothing left at end of week.

I have 13 years left to retirement. Am I supposed to sit here, save some in KiwiSaver (have calculated that when I turn 65 I will have about $150 - $200K in KiwiSaver) and start to live my life after retirement?

So I have also started to look around. For a place where my kids can get a good schooling, there is opportunities, somewhere more central (everything is so far away from NZ!!). And where I can earn much more and enjoy my time until retirement, not only stay alive.

Oz in all respect. But I am starting to lean towards Dubai.

The Positives re Dubai for me:
- No tax.
- High income. (Mine would be in the $300K/year +)
- Opportunities. Blows me away when I see what they are doing there!!
- Brilliant schools for "european" children.
- My kids future.
- Traveltime to Europe less then 1/2 compared to NZ
- No cold nights or rain!!

The negatives as I see it:
- Might become a fraction too hot??
- The Arab way of life (religion and rules)
- No alcohol (apart from in private clubs)
- Uprooting my kids from friends and the only life they know.

Big part in my starting to consider all this is that I can not see any real change here in NZ. Yes, we will most probably get a National Gov in the election. But it does not matter who is in charge. If you only have so many buttons to play with it it does not matter how you organise them. It will still be the same amount of buttons.

The reality is that NZ is falling behind. Sure, there is an elite who is getting it better. But 80% of new zealanders are falling further behind when in comparison to rest of the world. I have friends in many countries. They all have money to travel on holidays each year. They have money saved, money they can go out to dinner with, buy stuff they want not just need.

I don't have the time to wait for 20+ years until NZ has all sorted and is back on top. So I am getting closer to making a selfish decision based on me and my kids needs and wants.

Still a little away from making the final decision. But the more I think about it...

[avgas]

Check out house prices
Check out stamp duty on houses
Check out the price of second hand cars
Check out the heavy capital gains taxes on property and shares
Check out private health insurance
Check out commuting times from outer suburbs to central city
Check out where you are gonna ride/race your bike (options are more limited than you'd think)

All valid points. I have had to consider all these as i truly love NZ.
House prices in Melbourne attached, Stamp duty vs "First Home Owner Grant" here.
Heavy property taxes.....good if your not a developer. Private Health Insurance - whole kitten kaboodle for about $1-2K/pp. Commuting - takes about 1/2 what Auckland is min. And transport is roughly every 20min for the public (well it was when i was in Melbourne and Sydney).
I would love to worry about where i would ride my bike, right now the situation is when.
I do understand your sentiments, and please do understand that i in no way poke at the NZ lifestyle. I am just getting sick of being told how high i can achieve here. I am currently in my 3rd job where promotion means i have to kill the boss. The house market seems out of my reach (unless i put myself on a "retirement mortgage") as my salary seems to slow unless i change jobs. I couldn't decide if study or work was the way forward so i have done both over the last 10 years. However there seems to be that the non-graduates of NZ only see my degree, and the academics only see my life on the end of a shovel.........always the negative, never the positive in an interview.
I'm getting sick of others claiming the glory for MY WORK! I have also noticed that the attitude in NZ is getting cold. 10 years ago - you neighbors would feed your Cat and have coffee with you. I have had some good neighbors but it seems the good/bad ratio is getting worse.
People seem to think i am some kind of Saint when i help them out, but it used to be everyone helped everyone.
Where did we go so wrong?

[ManDownUnder]

Where did we go so wrong?

... once upon a time Mzz Clarke enrolled in Political Studies at Auckland University...

[Kittyhawk]

the entire system controlled by nz govt is shocking.

why are so many leaving. Nz has too many fat asses on the dole doing nothing. too many big cheeses pushing pens and delegating.

transport infrastructure - roading and public transport systems arent in place to cater for the growth of major cities and towns.

selling off our major supplies like rail and power etc, what happens when there is conflict? our country will shut down. nz relies way too much on our neighbouring country oz for exports one day this may end then what?

why try and be individual country when systems fail? take state of vic - speed limit 100km/hr there is no 10km/hr leway, camers are in place on major roads if you pass one camera and then pass the second one in a certian time by driving too fast you are fined. we should have that here to knock out boy racers, and place engine size limits on cars for learners and restricted licences like they have (bikes being the exception of course)

housing nz spending up large tax payers money for their comforts...where do us working people get a say? we never find out till after its been in the media, by then its too late.

medicial system is shocking. im stuck on a benefit till i get surgery so in the meantime im noodling around in pain not doing much...if they fixed me up at the time of the accident id still have a job and be in paid employment. not have the govt wasting money covering my ass to survive.

the govt has made it hard for middle class and upper to get ahead and live comfortably. if the grass is greener on the other side in this case oz then go. there will be one day minimum kiwis living here - im talking original kiwis as we would have fled to a better country where we will be treated a little better not taxed every day for something we try do for pleasure.

it will be interesting to see how much this country would have changed in years to come, akl predominantly islander indian and asian populated if its not going that way already smaller towns will be more than multicultural and the kiwi traditions and ways will fade.

[slowpoke]

I havn't browsed the West Aus employment scene for about a year, so I did a 5min search, mainly relating to previous work I used to do.
First hit went like this:
Heavy mechanical fitter, (mechanic).
Location. Tom Price. (Iron ore country)
2weeks on, 1 week off, fly in fly out.
$44/hr.
Heres the breakdown. 12hrs a day for 2weeks = 168 hrs worked. (no days off for two weeks)
44 by 168 =$7392 Aus gross. For two weeks!

The work is dusty, and dealing with big gear, but man, that is pretty good money. (the week off, fly to Bali, and kick back)

Now wheres my passport..........

Oh, and accom, and meals are free on fly in fly out jobs.

If your feeling sick, best you lay down and have a wee nap.
This thread is related to the option of financialy advancing oneself in Aus, not about ripping the guts out of NZ lifestyle.
40000 people have crossed the Tasman solely to make a better start for their families, because the NZ economy is struggling to get any where near it's counterpart.
It isn't an attack on other kiwi's, or their love for the country.
Many made the move through the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. Many returned (myself included), but I know for me personally, that it was a huge gain, financially, socially, and growth wise.
Why do you sound so bitter, that you attack those that wish to give it a go?
Some people may have had a bad run over there, but the majority do not.
Why knock people who a willing to up roots and take on life positively?
Tall poppy syndrome at it's ugliest stage. Cut their legs off before they even get to the airport.
Best you have a good long nap

Not bitter at all, mate, Australia was good to me. I've only been back a couple of years after spending 17 years over there. I'm effectively still there as I commute to an Oz gas platform from NZ.
My gripe is that people infer, as per your initial post, that just 'cos they can earn XXX amount of money in Oz that it's better, when in a lot of ways it's just not.....especially in Oz FIFO jobs which I've worked in mining and offshore for the past 14 years.
What dollar value do you put on spending half (or more) of your life away from your family/friends? Giving up that promising sports career? Missing birthdays, anniversary's, child birth, graduations etc etc
If it still sounds ok check out the horrendous stats on relationship breakdowns for FIFO work, I've got a heap of tragic stories from blokes I work with, and when you have to give up 35% of your pre-tax earnings to an ex-missus+child all of a sudden the cash doesn't seem quite so good.
I'm not saying it's not worth it, you've just got to go in with your eyes open and realise that you don't get nuthin' for nuthin', you get paid better money than a 9-5 job for a reason.
I in no way shape or form knocked those people who have gone over to Oz, good on 'em I say. I have nothing but respect for someone who has the initiative to go and try something for themselves but what is the point of talking it up and then staying put?
Bottom line: depending what your lifestyle is then Oz is no better or worse, it's just different.

[tri boy]

You raise some valid points regarding relationships etc.
I think having an exit strategy in place can help alleviate alot of spousal/partner concerns.
I also believe it can take 18mths, and $15k expenditure before people really start to settle in. (Travel, general costs, not including housing rental).
It is a big step for many, and I think desperation in some kiwi households are forcing this situation on those who would prefer to remain here but are really struggling.
One thing that may help build peoples confidence in upping stakes and shifting, is the old saying, "Fortune Favours the Bold"
Good luck to those that take the plunge.

[Blackbird]

I have also noticed that the attitude in NZ is getting cold. 10 years ago - you neighbors would feed your Cat and have coffee with you. I have had some good neighbors but it seems the good/bad ratio is getting worse.
People seem to think i am some kind of Saint when i help them out, but it used to be everyone helped everyone.
Where did we go so wrong?

Well, it still happens in the provinces (well certainly in Coromandel and where I previously lived) on an everyday basis and I'll bet it still happens in areas of Auckland too from what I've heard from my Auckland-based riding partners.

[Disco Dan]

A very close friend of mine is currently in OZ for a week - all paid for by his new employer.

This was after the manager flew to NZ to interview him a few weeks ago.

When he returns to NZ he will have just enough time to finally sell his house and tie up his affairs before moving to Australia...

...he aint coming back.

He has a job in the mines, got his truck and trailer license here and he's going to be earning mega bucks...

[Tank]

Not bitter at all, mate, Australia was good to me. I've only been back a couple of years after spending 17 years over there. I'm effectively still there as I commute to an Oz gas platform from NZ.
My gripe is that people infer, as per your initial post, that just 'cos they can earn XXX amount of money in Oz that it's better, when in a lot of ways it's just not.....especially in Oz FIFO jobs which I've worked in mining and offshore for the past 14 years.
What dollar value do you put on spending half (or more) of your life away from your family/friends? Giving up that promising sports career? Missing birthdays, anniversary's, child birth, graduations etc etc
If it still sounds ok check out the horrendous stats on relationship breakdowns for FIFO work, I've got a heap of tragic stories from blokes I work with, and when you have to give up 35% of your pre-tax earnings to an ex-missus+child all of a sudden the cash doesn't seem quite so good.
I'm not saying it's not worth it, you've just got to go in with your eyes open and realise that you don't get nuthin' for nuthin', you get paid better money than a 9-5 job for a reason.
I in no way shape or form knocked those people who have gone over to Oz, good on 'em I say. I have nothing but respect for someone who has the initiative to go and try something for themselves but what is the point of talking it up and then staying put?
Bottom line: depending what your lifestyle is then Oz is no better or worse, it's just different.

What a really good post - Bling to you sir.

As someone who has moved country's a couple of times for work and turned down jobs in the US and Aust in the last 6 months - there is a lot more to it than the $$$.

Its harder on families and relationships than a lot of people think - and that's just with professional jobs living in a city. I hate to think how hard it will be in the mines etc.

As you said - you get paid large $$$ for effectively unskilled work for a reason - Quick and easy work it wont be.

At the end of the day you have to weigh everything up. When you look at quality of life, family, security, freedom etc - NZ is hard to beat.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people that will go to Oz for an additional 10 - 20k per year - only to find that the additional cost of housing (because like for like (including distance from work) it IS more expensive) takes up 1/2 of the 'extra' money, and they spend longer commuting to and from the office having less time with the kids.

But - Its Australia so it MUST be better right?

Seriously - People need to sit back and look at everything that they have here. Yes - there are a lot of things that need to be improved - but I still think we live in one of the best countries in the world.

[tri boy]

As you said - you get paid large $$$ for effectively unskilled work for a reason - Quick and easy work it wont be.

So Geologists, surveyors, medical/rescue staff, engineers are unskilled in your eyes????
Sheesh, you set a very high career bar. Even the powder monkeys, (blast crews) need a hell of alot of training before they can dislodge 5000 tonne of rock at the right density and radius.
You probably didn't mean it, but your reference was quite insulting to at least a dozen industries. What is your career if I may be so bold?

[Tank]

So Geologists, surveyors, medical/rescue staff, engineers are unskilled in your eyes????
Sheesh, you set a very high career bar. Even the powder monkeys, (blast crews) need a hell of alot of training before they can dislodge 5000 tonne of rock at the right density and radius.
You probably didn't mean it, but your reference was quite insulting to at least a dozen industries. What is your career if I may be so bold?

I certainly wasn't talking about Geologists, surveyors, medical/rescue staff, engineers, or a lot of other very skilled people.

I was referring more to the more commonly referred to roles of people getting a truck licence and earning 100k +.

He has a job in the mines, got his truck and trailer license here and he's going to be earning mega bucks...

My career?? - Im a IT strategist for a International software company. Before this I owned my own company consulting to Merchant banks for about 5 years - including lecturing across Europe and the US for about 2 years.

[Conquiztador]

Aussie mine swallows student's loan

28.05.2008
KATE NEWTON
A Dannevirke man who paid off his $31,000 student loan in six months has a message for those laid off by the closure of Oringi meatworks - get yourself to a mine.

Ross Smith made the pilgrimage to Western Australia's gold mines, a track that's becoming well-beaten by young Kiwis, when he graduated from Canterbury University.

He saved $35,000 after just 24 weeks of work, working 12-hour days and 13 days of every 14. After three months he would get a week's break.

"Food and accommodation was paid by the employers and some weeks my outgoings were as little as $50," Mr Smith said.

"It's the best place for people to save money as everything is paid for and you are stuck in the middle of nowhere."
Having returned from the mines early last year he is now cashing in on the experience by helping others get a job in the mines with an online guidebook he sells for $30.

So far he has sold more than 500 to Kiwis keen to take advantage of Australia's mining boom and the shortage of skills to supply the new mines.

And now he is keen to answer the call of anyone from his hometown of Dannevirke who needs his help.

"I feel sorry for the workers and their families and the corresponding subcontracted companies associated with it," Mr Smith said.

"I actually applied for a job there and might have been working at Oringi if there had been a job available."

Mr Smith's family bought a Dannevirke dairy farm when he was 10.

After Ruahine Primary School and Dannevirke High School he went to Canterbury University in 2000 where he graduated with a bachelor of commerce majoring in marketing.

Mr Smith had no mining experience when he went to work at the mines and said people did not need knowledge of mining to secure a job.

The e-book, Rosco's Mining Employment Guide, covers the best places to go, what money to expect, the working conditions and how to get the job.

Here: (and no, I am getting nothing for this) http://www.trademe.co.nz/Books/Nonfi...-157476053.htm

[Motu]

... once upon a time Mzz Clarke enrolled in Political Studies at Auckland University...

Around the same time Robert Muldoon was Minister of Finance.....and before he gained control of this country every man woman and child owed a $1.That was the size of the national debt,the same as the population.9 years later New Zealand was in deep shit,and no government since has been able to recover the damage.

For those who want money and career,and more sun - go to OZ.But I don't think I would of been able to live the life I have in another country.

[Ixion]

And what's more, Mr Muldoon knew , personally, the name of every unemployed person in the country.

He may have had his faults, but he was the closest thing we've had to a socialist prime minister in many years.

I met him quite a few times , he was a very decent sort of bloke.

[Motu]

And what's more, Mr Muldoon knew , personally, the name of every unemployed person in the country.

He may have had his faults, but he was the closest thing we've had to a socialist prime minister in many years.

He was a dictator and in control of this country as much as Stalin was in control of his.He said we are doing this...now! And it was done,without question.He just steamrolled any objections.People on this site have no idea what communism means....and it sure doesn't mean Nanny State!