Sick and tired of Cullen

[James Deuce]

perhaps its because the concepts are so simple yet the dimwits persist in ignoring the obvious.

money doesn't come from nowhere, who's gonna lose out if national rapes the purse of $50,000,000,000 to pay for tax cuts?

That's right, the poor, the underprivileged, the ordinary Kiwi who'll see everything else sold or shortchanged.

Those who will benefit will be the usual national buddy suspects: foreign businesses, the very rich, themselves, their mates.

Rape NZ! Elect National!

Political parties aren't elected to "power" in NZ, the incumbent merely loses the confidence of the those stupid voters you look down your nose at.

Rather than ranting at us thickies, how about establishing an education programme on how proportional voting systems can be used to the advantage of the voter? I know it isn't STV, but similar practices to those used by the major political elements of Germany might actually give us a shot at electing a government that isn't so desperate for supporting votes to shore up their policy that they have to make deals with the lunatic fringe.

[idleidolidyll]

I say, you seem to have a good grip on Parliamentary debating techniques. Are you sure you're not on the Labour or Green list?

no jimmy, that was what YOu were doing: totally ignoring the topic in favour of pure personal attack

it really handed me the point on a platter; thanks

[James Deuce]

One rather wonders just whose point is being made evident.

I'm not a smart man.

[Flatcap]

money doesn't come from nowhere, who's gonna lose out if national rapes the purse of $50,000,000,000 to pay for tax cuts?

That's right, the poor, the underprivileged, the ordinary Kiwi who'll see everything else sold or shortchanged.

Those who will benefit will be the usual national buddy suspects: foreign businesses, the very rich, themselves, their mates.

You say that like it's a bad thing...'bout time I got to keep more of my money

[idleidolidyll]

Political parties aren't elected to "power" in NZ, the incumbent merely loses the confidence of the those stupid voters you look down your nose at.

Rather than ranting at us thickies, how about establishing an education programme on how proportional voting systems can be used to the advantage of the voter? I know it isn't STV, but similar practices to those used by the major political elements of Germany might actually give us a shot at electing a government that isn't so desperate for supporting votes to shore up their policy that they have to make deals with the lunatic fringe.

such a cycnic, isn't it time you crossed the ditch?

but yes, labour has just been in power too long; the kiwi govt malaise.
although it has shortened the dole queue, increased trade and business, started a superannuation program, started a NZ bank, improved health and other services etc, voters are more interested in the latest scaremongering and propaganda than the facts
NZ politics is similar to yank politics; propaganda and media beat ups are more relevant to most people than actual actions, policies and the effects of policy.

neither of the major parties really want to educate us about politics; we'd then just realise that both are selling us out to foreign interests (albeit slower in the case of the current labour govt).

I don't know that you're a 'thickie' but if you self label I'd say catch 22 applies.

Are you really asking ME to set up a political education programme? Sorry, I'm just an ordinary working Joe, I do my bit on web sites and in person. Why don't you do it?

Agreed though, a proportional rep system more like Germany might help but only a fool would believe that would solve all or even many of our problems. The scary thing is that disaffected voters might make the ultimate cock up and reinstate the system of electoral dictatorship we had before MMP. National will be pressing them to do just that the next time it holds power.

As hated as it might be in political circles here; i support binding referenda

I reckon some issues are just too socially sensitive to allow MP's to decide on our behalf.

[idleidolidyll]

One rather wonders just whose point is being made evident.

I'm not a smart man.

one need not wonder at all, one need only read and comprehend the logic

there's that catch 22 again

[idleidolidyll]

You say that like it's a bad thing...'bout time I got to keep more of my money

those others who bleed the working classes agree with you

those leeches on society who profit from the sweat of other men and women really do believe they are somehow more deserving than all those they stand on as they reach for the pricze................maybe it's time for a revolution?

[Swoop]

And the evidence to support this proposition is?

History. Those who haven't learnt from it are doomed to repeat it... Obviously liebour think it is good enough to have another dose of "learning".

Nope, Labour has STATED that the tax cuts will cost about $10,000,000,000 over 3 years.

Labour told us that the country had a massive surplus. THEN they turn around and "oops, we're actually not as well of as first thought".
Lastly it is "oh dear, a massive surplus - treasury got it wrong - not us!"

I wouldn't trust liebour to count the change in my pocket, let alone come up with any reliable figures. Ten billion is a nice round figure, don't you think? Another guess without any backup. Sound's similar to some posts really...

[Flatcap]

but yes, labour has just been in power too long; the kiwi govt malaise.
although it has shortened the dole queue, increased trade and business, started a superannuation program, started a NZ bank, improved health and other services etc,.

Yes you are correct - the dole queue is shorter as everyone has been moved onto some other benefit.

Increased trade and business? Happened in spite of Labour policy

Started an NZ bank? It's still losing money

Improved health? Junior doctors wouldn't agree

As you say, Labour has been in power too long, and now that they can now longer run the economy on autopilot, we need to get rid of them before they totally stuff it

[Flatcap]

those others who bleed the working classes agree with you

those leeches on society who profit from the sweat of other men and women really do believe they are somehow more deserving than all those they stand on as they reach for the pricze................maybe it's time for a revolution?

That's capitalism - without the capitalist there would be no work for the working class.....the alternative is communism, and we all know that doesn't work

[idleidolidyll]

History. Those who haven't learnt from it are doomed to repeat it... Obviously liebour think it is good enough to have another dose of "learning".

Labour told us that the country had a massive surplus. THEN they turn around and "oops, we're actually not as well of as first thought".
Lastly it is "oh dear, a massive surplus - treasury got it wrong - not us!"

I wouldn't trust liebour to count the change in my pocket, let alone come up with any reliable figures. Ten billion is a nice round figure, don't you think? Another guess without any backup. Sound's similar to some posts really...

pay attention son

the bureaucracy doesn't change when the government changes (well most of it anyway).
the same bullshit happens under national and the main difference is that national policy is to permanently destroy social spending in order to hand society to its mates on a platter........just like their arse buddies amerikkka.

cynicism is good, blind or willful ignorance is not

Unless you become more watchful in your States and check this spirit of monopoly and thirst for exclusive privileges, you will in the end find that the most important powers of Government have been given or bartered away, and the control of your dearest interests have been passed into the hands of these corporations.
-- Andrew Jackson, farewell address, 04 March 1837


It's already happened in yankland and it's happening here too, National will make it happen faster on the back of bribes like tax cuts

[idleidolidyll]

That's capitalism - without the capitalist there would be no work for the working class.....the alternative is communism, and we all know that doesn't work

yawn

opinions are like arseholes, we all have em

you seem in desperate need of a good reading: i suggest you start with Karl Marx and Adam Smith

These two people are almost universally noted as the fathers of each system

[Flatcap]

the same bullshit happens under national and the main difference is that national policy is to permanently destroy social spending in order to hand society to its mates on a platter........just like their arse buddies amerikkka.

How does one permanently destroy social spending?

[Flatcap]

yawn

opinions are like arseholes, we all have em

you seem in desperate need of a good reading: i suggest you start with Karl Marx and Adam Smith

These two people are almost universally noted as the fathers of each system

Read just about everything on Marx while doing my degree in Sociology and Psychology.

Read just about everything on Adam Smith while doing my Commerce degree.

Now I prefer to read about the next toy I'm going to buy

[idleidolidyll]

How does one permanently destroy social spending?

fair cop

its more accurate to say they've destroyed many or most most social spending programes by handing those services to capitalism on a platter........with massive cost increases the nett result

in amerika corporations are superhumans; granted the status of humans but unable to be punished or checked like humans.
handing social services to those corporations has almost guaranteed they'll stay expensive and bleed people dry.

they may pay less nett tax but they pay far more for the same services we get with tax money.

example: a study last year examined health care in 1st world countries (yes, NZ was classed as 1st world).

NZ scored in the top 2 or 3 overall and scored near the top on all but delivery of the very latest technologies

amerikkka scored badly on most and particularly badly on health service delivery, accessibility, afforability etc.

they delivered in technology but as noted in the previous sentence, that was really only of benefit to the wealthy few who can afford it.

we like to complain about our health service but the fact is it's almost a world leader according to studies.

the cost per person in NZ was about US$1750 per annum while the cost per person in the US was almost double that. No wonder health insurance is so expensive in the US and no wonder more and more companies are opting out of health packages for employees there too

That's what tax cuts will buy you; they'll be paid for by cutting social spending and handing social services to capitalism; the least qualified to look after them