I need your keys, boots and motorcycle

**blossomsowner** · 13th June 2008, 23:37

Originally Posted by glice

they have safety 'catch' kind of things to stop a big bang.
they had a guy on cambell live who had done it to his falcon and was using about 5l per 100km.

saw that tonight and looked pretty simple to install and wasn't taking up too much room. interesting thing was that it performed way better than they thought it would......and just on the first go..........good potential to improve even further maybe........

**JMemonic** · 14th June 2008, 00:06

Originally Posted by captain_andrey

In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
-- Homer Simpson

Now, honestly, who believes this?

What that Homer Simpson believes in the laws of thermodynamics, nah he would not even know they exist, aside from his fiction nature he does too much of this

.

So the earth is still flat and we know everything, I tend to believe in the possibility of smarter minds than my own. Others have proven that these devices work and have potential.

**Steam** · 14th June 2008, 00:29

Originally Posted by R6_kid

So he's using electrolysis to split the hydrogen and oxygen in water... then drawing it by vacuum into the air-intake.

I'd hate to see what would happen if that back fired.

They have a water-bubbler bong thing to stop it backfiring into the generator unit, so it's okay.

Originally Posted by captain_andrey

In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
-- Homer Simpson

Now, honestly, who believes this?

Depends whether the (hydrogen burned plus the petrol burned) gives out more energy than the ((hydrogen burned plus the petrol burned) minus the alternator drain used to electrolyse the water).

It could work if something interesting happened to make the fuel combustion more efficient, more than just the addition of the hydrogen, like a catalyst reaction or something.

**mashman** · 14th June 2008, 10:47

Originally Posted by JMemonic

A bloke in Christchurch did this some years ago even had a patient for the unit that produced the gas, the patent details are on the net somewhere and look just like a hydrogen fuel cell of modern invention, the output of the cars generation system was enough to power it.

link

i read about this guy in a spurious document somewhere. Think he was the first to actually make it work efficiently. The story ended up with, i think it was Shell, ending up with the patent and the guy from chch dissapearing. I'll see if i can find the document again

**geoffm** · 14th June 2008, 12:27

Originally Posted by Steam

They have a water-bubbler bong thing to stop it backfiring into the generator unit, so it's okay.

Depends whether the (hydrogen burned plus the petrol burned) gives out more energy than the ((hydrogen burned plus the petrol burned) minus the alternator drain used to electrolyse the water).

It could work if something interesting happened to make the fuel combustion more efficient, more than just the addition of the hydrogen, like a catalyst reaction or something.

The laws of physics are against it - where does the energy come from for the electrolysis? Entropy is not your friend - there are process losses as well.
The only way it can work is a battery bank - there is still a nett energy deficit, but you are time shifting the energy use and source to something more convenient, sucn as the mains electrical grid.
G

**Steam** · 14th June 2008, 12:35

Originally Posted by geoffm

The laws of physics are against it - where does the energy come from for the electrolysis? Entropy is not your friend - there are process losses as well.

Sure, the energy for the electrolysis comes from the car engine in the first place, but if the hydrogen gas injection somehow boosts the petrol-burning efficiency beyond just what would be produced from burning the hydrogen and petrol alone or separately, then it could work.

It's not a closed system of course, you are still burning petrol, but maybe just a bit more efficiently. I would like to see some good large studies before shelling out my hard-earned cash for it though.

**MisterD** · 14th June 2008, 15:20

Hydrogen fuel injection - and it seems to be a legit technology. I'm still trying to get my head around the chemistry but.

**mashman** · 16th June 2008, 14:24

Originally Posted by geoffm

The laws of physics are against it - where does the energy come from for the electrolysis? Entropy is not your friend - there are process losses as well.
The only way it can work is a battery bank - there is still a nett energy deficit, but you are time shifting the energy use and source to something more convenient, sucn as the mains electrical grid.
G

There may well be a minimal loss, when generating the current... but to be honest I think it's minimal and once the chemical reaction starts happening with a miniscule amount of current, it's going to defy the supposed, what we'e been spoonfed, laws of physics. I've found numerous postings of working versions of this on the web recently, 90% posted within the last year, zero point generators they're calling them... Anyone wonder why the price of fuel is all of a sudden skyrocketing for no reason...

**TOTO** · 16th June 2008, 18:24

I wanna see a living proof. If you can SHOW me it works and declare in writing you can install it and Guarantee it WILL work on me bike/car/vacume cleaner I will be your number one customer.

no bull

**glice** · 16th June 2008, 18:33

Originally Posted by blossomsowner

saw that tonight and looked pretty simple to install and wasn't taking up too much room. interesting thing was that it performed way better than they thought it would......and just on the first go..........good potential to improve even further maybe........

yea it was loads better than the standard one. looks like a good way forward.

**rudolph** · 16th June 2008, 18:41

A guy I work with did it to his car and got it working quit well, Me and a friend are testing one on on my old honda car, it never stays working tho

**mashman** · 16th June 2008, 19:10

Originally Posted by TOTO

I wanna see a living proof. If you can SHOW me it works and declare in writing you can install it and Guarantee it WILL work on me bike/car/vacume cleaner I will be your number one customer.

no bull

I'm gonna give it a shot... may take a few weeks, but i have a sientifically minded friend who's gonna help me... We're gonna start with the lawn mower and then go from there... Even if i do get it working I wouldn't install it in someone elses car/bike/machine etc... I wouldn't want the responsibility... but i'd happily do a write up of materials used, preparation, safety, potential gains etc... Just need to get some time to actually do it... I believe that it can be done... there was a guy called Stan Meyer (check out this site for more info waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html) who supposedly removed the petrol tank from dune buggy and drove it quite happily running on nothing but water... Hard to believe, but it's been done!!!

If i can get it to work on a car, I might look into hooking a generator up to my house...

**Steam** · 16th June 2008, 19:25

Originally Posted by mashman

... it's going to defy the supposed, what we'e been spoonfed, laws of physics. I've found numerous postings of working versions of this on the web recently, 90% posted within the last year, zero point generators they're calling them...

I'm betting you have no science background.

Frankly, you're talking tosh. Complete bullshit. Conspiracy theory garbage.
I'm not even going to bother explaining why.

**mashman** · 16th June 2008, 20:30

Originally Posted by Steam

I'm betting you have no science background.

Frankly, you're talking tosh. Complete bullshit. Conspiracy theory garbage.
I'm not even going to bother explaining why.

That's fair enough... No I don't have the science background, but a man i know does... whilst I wouldn't exactly say that i walk around with a light bulb permanently lit above my head, I wouldn't say I was the dumb shit that you're painting me to be... I'm not saying it's a dead cert, guarenteed 100%, but there are too many people around the globe doing this for the theory not to hold any water. As such I aim to try it instead of decrying that's it's not possible because ye cannae change the laws of physics...