Singh family complaining about the police

[spudchucka]

IThe police had a "grave concern" about the role of alcohol consumption in violent offending in the area.

It would appear that Coldrider and I are not the only people willing to talk about the link between violence and the sale and consumption of alcohol.

If there wasn't any alcohol in our society you could scrap about 80% of all violent and property damage related crime.

[spudchucka]

Oh, never knew that, I looked in all my books and can't find that 'dollar figure' - maybe you could tell me how much it is???

BTW: Lost out today, no dollars collected.

I haven't collected a single dollar for nearly two years. I wonder when they'll sack me?

[scumdog]

Prime Minister Helen Clark wants to crack down on the number of liquor outlets in poor areas of New Zealand in the wake of killings and robberies that have shocked the country.

The police had a "grave concern" about the role of alcohol consumption in violent offending in the area.

It would appear that Coldrider and I are not the only people willing to talk about the link between violence and the sale and consumption of alcohol.

There's no actual 'NEED' for alcamahol is society and given the amount of crime and misery I have seen where drinking it (not always to excess) has been the common factor I would not cry if it all vanished overnight - despite it being my number 1 chill-out-and-unwind favourite.

But I guess that knowing society they would find some other *chemical to take to enhance their stupidity/rage/violence/libido/braveness and use THAT as a crutch/excuse when they break the rules and get into trouble.

*and for some company/person to make a big profit from.

[terbang]

Fuck I didn't know coppers had a sense of humor...bahahaha......and yeah thinkin' about leaving Auckland, where's a good destination? [with no crime and great roads]

Saudi Arabia and also .12c per litre for gas...

[tgb_novice]

Yup! Alcohol is a cause of most of the issues, everybody agrees with it, but why do we not then ban the sale of alcohol and cigs? They cost us so much but we still persist in selling them

I have been in a country were sale & consumption of alcohol is banned (Saudi Arabia) and sure we found ways to get around it , but it made us the whole lot more careful and appreciated that alcohol was to be used with care and sense.!!

[imdying]

Yup! Alcohol is a cause of most of the issues, everybody agrees with it, but why do we not then ban the sale of alcohol and cigs? They cost us so much but we still persist in selling them

That's why... you've just illustrated why people believe that once they start banning one thing, they'll just keep on going.

What if your post had read, 'but why do we not then ban the sale of alcohol, cigs, and dogs'? Or worse.

[davereid]

If there wasn't any alcohol in our society you could scrap about 80% of all violent and property damage related crime.

As a cop, I'm sure you attend lots of situations where drunk and stupid people are causing all sorts of trouble.

Its easy to say alcohol is to blame, and to assume that banning or restricting alcohol would help.

But most New Zealanders use alcohol regularly. Even on a daily basis, at levels which easily exceed "safe guidelines"

And most New Zealanders get through their entire lives with nothing worse than a traffic ticket.

Our attitude to alcohol and in fact all recreational chemicals may be CAUSED by it's restriction, not solved by it.

Thats because we don't think of alcohol as a normal part of our life.

We think of it as a reward, as special, as something we need to party with.

Restriction only reinforces this !

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The common factors in all these violent crimes are clear

1. The criminals were already well known to the justice system. They would not have offended under a 3-strikes system as they would have been long since banged up.

2. They kill for pleasure. The RSA, this shooting, various bashings and stabbings, done for fun, even when the goal of the robbery had been achieved. If you are unarmed, and confonted by a violent criminal, chances are you WILL be attacked even if you co-operate.

3. A massive correlation with the DPB and social policy. Virtually all our criminals are born in welfare dependent families, grow up in welfare dependent families, and are themselves welfare dependent.

Really, the solutions seem to be staring us in the face, we merely lack the courage to do anything.

[spudchucka]

I wasn't suggesting that banning alcohol was the only answer, its just a recognition thing that alcohol is a key catalyst in most violent crime, especially family violence.

[scumdog]

Our attitude to alcohol and in fact all recreational chemicals may be CAUSED by it's restriction, not solved by it.

Awe cunt-rare, liberalising it's sales etc has seen things worse.

The dropping the drinking age, having more liquor outlets with longer hours and the pushing of alcopops has seen a pretty big increase in alcohol fueled problems in a lot of young peopels lives - more so than in my day of mainly beer and a 21 years drinking age, shorter pub hours and no sales from dairies, supermarkets etc .

[tgb_novice]

That's why... you've just illustrated why people believe that once they start banning one thing, they'll just keep on going.

What if your post had read, 'but why do we not then ban the sale of alcohol, cigs, and dogs'? Or worse.

Come on we already do it for a whole lot of drugs ? Heroin, P etc etc. If we need to go the other way then lets not ban anything ?

So if I rephrase my statements as "Lets classify alcohol as a Class C drug ? " Would that help ?

I mean for all that matters, if you compare the effects of alcohol with any other drugs you will see the similarities
1) Causes an feel good factor aka High in the brain
2) Is addictive
3) Repeated use can cause serious bodily harm
3) Excess intake can cause death
etc etc the list goes on.

Now this does not in anyway justify the death of the poor guy as he was just running a legally entitled business.

[imdying]

I mean for all that matters, if you compare the effects of alcohol with any other drugs you will see the similarities
1) Causes an feel good factor aka High in the brain
2) Is addictive
3) Repeated use can cause serious bodily harm
4) Excess intake can cause death

Sounds very much like a sportsbike :/

Now this does not in anyway justify the death of the poor guy as he was just running a legally entitled business.

Indeed!

[tgb_novice]

Sounds very much like a sportsbike :/

I agree but then thats why it is so strictly enforced (OH I hate those helmets :P) and with all the speeding tickets etc that we rake up . I mean if we could control alcohol to that manner yah sure

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Prohibition: Coming to a town near you...

[tgb_novice]

Prohibition: Coming to a town near you...

Yah But..... They could carry guns

[Edbear]

Awe cunt-rare, liberalising it's sales etc has seen things worse.

The dropping the drinking age, having more liquor outlets with longer hours and the pushing of alcopops has seen a pretty big increase in alcohol fueled problems in a lot of young peopels lives - more so than in my day of mainly beer and a 21 years drinking age, shorter pub hours and no sales from dairies, supermarkets etc .

You know, it's a funny thing... The more liberalised the laws become, the more problems we have in society, do you really think there is a connection..?

On the other hand, we want freedom to do whatever we want, insisting we can control ourselves and don't need all these laws.

While some, or maybe most of us can exercise self-control and common-sense, it is apparent that far too many can't, hence we have our Police tearing their hair out at what they face every day in the streets.

The reality, as maybe opposed to what we think should be, is that if you make "bad stuff", (alcohol, smokes, drugs, etc.), freely, or more, available there are plenty of people who will use/abuse/take advantage of same. The reality, is that this is the way it is, and no amount of complaining about laws or law enforcement is going to make it go away.

If you think the Police are in some way handling things poorly, go out on patrol with them. If you think the laws are being unfairly introduced, or are draconian or inadequate, sit down with those who make them, sit in on the committees and listen to the discussions among the pollies who have to make the laws, follow their research, read the studies and papers they read.

Go into the emergency rooms at the hospitals on Friday and Saturday nights and watch what the Drs. and Nurses have to endure. See the situation for yourself, first-hand. See the blood, see the violence, see the drugged-up young people attacking anything and anyone.

Then you may comment...