MNZ request Super Motard feedback

[scott411]

Sorry but that's not true. Motards don't corner faster, the just get to the Apex faster, stop in the middle and get in the way.

we will agree to disagree, some riders are dangerous no matter what they ride, it was never the bikes that were the problem but a minority of the riders

They have a class, they can stay in it

no probs with this as long as it enforced across the board, ie no 600's in F1, no F3 in F2, they have classes to stick to as well,

[skypig]

I’d welcome any chance to race my motard in as many classes as possible. It’s a great Road Race starter’s class and the opportunity to race in other classes might help people to commit to purchasing another style of race bike.

I think it’s a matter of riding style (and perhaps individual “manners”) than a “bike” problem.


Personally I’m happy to race in a Motard Class when available.

Some events, like Paeroa Battle of the streets have a “top riders” race where the top few riders from each class form a race. It would be a shame to see Motards excluded.

[Crasherfromwayback]

But I believe the problem lies not in the bikes the motard guys (and gals) are riding, but how they're riding them. Too many 'motard' racers decide to have a go (and good on them for that), but really have no idea what road racing is all about.

I've raced big dirt bikes for years without any problems, but I've always raced them 'road race style'. When I raced KX500's years ago, I always had to ride in F2, and a 600cc four is way more powerful. Didn't stop me winning at Masterton, Gisborne and doing well at Auckland and Wangas. But that was done by carrying huge corner speed with smooth arcing lines...not by trying to get all sideways and look good.

I feel that the motard racers that do that have simply seen the pros on telly doing that, and simply feel that that's the way you should ride them.

That's all good on a proper motard type track...but it's not the way to go on a road race track. Most pople don't realize how fast Wanganui is. It ain't no motard track.

Pete

[Kevin G]

Absolutley agree.

Its important MNZ receive these points of view or decisions will be made on what submissions they receive.

As I stated earlier, if the rider is riding in a manner that is considered dangerous it is a stewards job to sort it out.

A motard ridden in the manner described above and as per skypigs piccy (very nice by the way) are a great weapon on most tracks.

Kevin Goddard

[Ivan]

Best Motard I have seen isnt a motard its a CRF450 with road fairings and frotn end sorry off subject but I saw it today friggen cool

AndI say Motards to Motards road bikes to Road bikes sorry plain and simple differnt riding styles and cornering speeds

[skypig]

Neat bit of kit that!

GSXR1000 forks.

Not sure if rule 5-2 (appearance) is being adhered to.

Also the short sighted rule to ban Motards (rather than a riding style) could also affect excellent examples of innovation like Lyndon’s F3 CRF450.

"Any machine complying with Rule No 34-2-3 and 34-5 is automatically excluded from entering any Formula 3 event.
Any includes all events whether they are MNZ titled events or not, this is for safety reasons.
It must not be amended or altered in anyway by the use of Supplementary Reuglations."

[spsduc]

Here are my thoughts for what it's worth.
This is a copy of what I sent to MNZ tonight.
Cheers.

Hi Vicky I’m writing in response to the current discussion on Motards running in Formula classes.

I believe that Motards are not the problem, the riders are. The practice of barrelling up the inside of other riders crossed up with their leg out and squaring off the corners that is practiced (Usually pretty poorly) by some Motard riders is not appropriate or indeed very effective on a road race circuit.

Anyone with any experience riding dirt bikes on road race circuits will tell you that that practice is just not fast.

THESE RIDERS NEED EDUCATION NOT EXCLUSION!


Motards are a relatively cheap entry to Road Racing and many riders (myself included) started road racing on this style of bike and then progressed onto road based machines.

I could give you a list of successful competitors from this region who rode their dirt bikes in a road race style (I.E. hanging off as opposed to leg out) with success in formula classes that progressed to road race machines once the bug bit and funds allowed. (Let me know if you want these names)



I believe this style of bike encourages spectators to have a go (Lets face it their has been an explosion of dirt bike sales over the past few years) and gives extra interest to the formula classes.

What is a club organising a road race meeting to do if 4 or 5 Motards turn up to an event and they have to run a separate class for these riders?

This will only frustrate riders in other classes as they will get less track time.



From a safety point of view I believe running 1000cc bikes in with anything from 125GP bikes to Pro Twins etc poses a far greater risk than Motards in F3. I have seen this at Club Days in the past and it horrifies me.

The other riders will police inappropriate riding behaviour as they do with any rider riding dangerously on any style of bike and report it to the Steward.

Road racing in this country is not that buoyant that we can afford to alienate anybody who wants to have a go.

These guys need to be encouraged and educated on appropriate use of their bikes in a road race environment.


Let’s not legislate against this type of bike. Surely if rules need to be made, it would be better to rule against the crossed up leg out style of riding amongst conventional road race bikes?



I repeat, these guys (and girls) need encouraging, not alienating.


I am happy to discuss this further, so please feel free to contact me via email or phone.



Regards,

Craig Ballantyne

Dunedin

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nice one mate!

Pete

[CHOPPA]

I cant understand why motard riders dont want to have your own dedicated classes anyway? Theres always plenty of riders

Motards racing in formula classes is the same diff as me racing in the motard class on my zx6 its not right....

[scott411]

Motards racing in formula classes is the same diff as me racing in the motard class on my zx6 its not right....

no its like you racing your ZX6 in the F1 Class,

[skypig]

I cant understand why motard riders dont want to have your own dedicated classes anyway? Theres always plenty of riders

Motards racing in formula classes is the same diff as me racing in the motard class on my zx6 its not right....

I enjoy riding in the Motard class. I might get twice the track time (I need it) if I could also race in F3. If I liked it I might end up with a dedicated F3 bike. (I’d just have to “squander” a little less money on food and shelter)

Motards fitted the F3 rules until the rules were changed to exclude them.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Motards racing in formula classes is the same diff as me racing in the motard class on my zx6 its not right....

For years I put up with comments like that. A lot of 'racers' simply don't like being beaten fair and square by a guy on a lightly modified dirt bike.

Get faster or get over it.

[GaZBur]

Cross entries aren't just a Motard problem. Obviously 150's in F3 and 600's in F1 have speed differentials as well which is the real danger as on race open tracks motard riders will ride road style anyway.
So isn't it simpler to say if you cross enter a single bike into another class your start position in the second class will be either determined by lap times and allocated or you will start off the back row. Nobody in thier own class is dissadvantaged in this way when for example an inexperienced Motard rider could be faster off the grid only to get in the way of quick F3 guys in the first corner, but we can get extra racing experience and track time without endangering eachother.
This would also help keep the quick but lower budget F3 guys (who I suspect were the people who got the rule in the first place) happy to ride the current bikes they have without the concern that sombody with money can just buy a Vtwin apprillia or similar and wipe them out of thier own class.

[koba]

I have never raced in a class with motards, but maybe thats why the exclusion of them seems unfair to me.

I dont know enough about it to make a submission to MNZ but from where I'm looking at the moment It does seem like motard riders get a raw deal.
Surely the interest in motards is good for road racing as a whole.

Craig Ballantyne makes a sensible comment on it above, that makes sense to me.
At Vic club meetings there are enough motards that show up to make thier own class viable, that may be the best thing in that situation but the riders concerned know best which is why it is a good thing that MNZ are asking the riders!
I am surprised that soo many motard riders still show up with the level of contempt some "proper" road racers show towards them.

As I say I'm only coming at this from an outsiders view so I encourage people to have their say so maybe this issue can be sorted in a way the keeps most people happy.

[lostinflyz]

if motards can race f3 and motard classes. why cant f3 bikes race motard class. not to be annoying or arguing for the sake of it but everyone wants more track time.

but either way if a motard races knee down i dont see the problem with them in f3 but then wats the point of a motard class (outside splitting up huge f3 fields, which means kicking the motards out anyway)

why not do split starts anyway like the f3 and 125 guys. ok 3 split start would be hard but not impossible.