Should we end the drug war in NZ?

[alanzs]

Oh that forgetful thing is quite natural, it's called....um....

See, I'm not, not.... whatever? What were we talking about anyways?

[rachprice]

I think the main issue is lack of ACCURATE education
Contrary to popular belief cannabis does NOT kill brain cells (although alcohol does) yet every time we were talked to about drugs at school it was pushed on us that weed kills brain cells.
A lot of people who talk about drugs don't have accurate knowledge of them.
I dont pretend to know what the answer is but surely there is something better than the current legislation?
And there are many medical uses for cannabis, I think that AT LEAST it should be available for medicinal use. You can get little devices that monitor the dose and frequency of use, that contain concentrated THC (active ingredient in cannabis), now where is the harm in this?
Oh and nicotine is not chemically more addictive than heroin though has massive psychological component.

[alanzs]

I think the main issue is lack of ACCURATE education
Contrary to popular belief cannabis does NOT kill brain cells (although alcohol does) yet every time we were talked to about drugs at school it was pushed on us that weed kills brain cells.
A lot of people who talk about drugs don't have accurate knowledge of them.
I dont pretend to know what the answer is but surely there is something better than the current legislation?
And there are many medical uses for cannabis, I think that AT LEAST it should be available for medicinal use. You can get little devices that monitor the dose and frequency of use, that contain concentrated THC (active ingredient in cannabis), now where is the harm in this?
Oh and nicotine is not chemically more addictive than heroin though has massive psychological component.

I agree with you 100%. Besides, at it's most basic level, freedom really is the issue. If I want to stick a needle full of poppy juice in my arm and get all fucked up, as long as I am not harming anyone or being a burden to society, why should anyone think that they have the "moral right" to tell me I cannot? Who made them GOD, the ever knowing, omnipotent one? Like they know what's best for me? How arrogant is that? But, we put up with it all the time. We so willingly go along with what the "authorities" say. There are people who will argue things which just are not true, but they don't take the time to think for themselves.

I tend to think the whole drug issue is nothing more than another method that we allow others to control us, and impede our ability to think, and forbid, dissent.
The "drug war" was started as a reaction to Mexican workers in the US who would come to the US and work for low wages back in the 1920's (the Bracero program). After alcohol prohibition failed miserably, giving rise to organized crime, the US government had thousands of Prohibition agents who would have been unemployed. Amazingly, marijuana (a term used by the Mexican workers), cocaine and heroin were made illegal and rigorously enforced, ensuring more employment, and arrests of the Mexicans and other ethnic groups. The Cannabis plant itself wasn't made illegal until the Nixon administration in the 1970's. Most people have no clue why all the drugs are illegal. Most don't think about it.

Back then, like now, creating fear in the populace is a sure fire way of staying in office. Nobody will vote for someone who is soft on crime. Fear, exploited masterfully by the current US administration, does keep you in office. Ask GW Bush if he agrees on that one.


Why is it that the drugs that make you "dumb" like alcohol, valium, prozac, are all legal, but the drugs that may make you think; Cannabis, LSD, MDMA (Ecstasy), Mescaline are all illegal? I believe that a controlling government can't have its citizens thinking too much, or they'd lose power.

"You may call me a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..."

[Bikernereid]

So many people would be so fookin dull if they or you weren't on drugs!!

[firefighter]

I agree with you 100%. Besides, at it's most basic level, freedom really is the issue. If I want to stick a needle full of poppy juice in my arm and get all fucked up, as long as I am not harming anyone or being a burden to society, why should anyone think that they have the "moral right" to tell me I cannot? Who made them GOD, the ever knowing, omnipotent one? Like they know what's best for me? How arrogant is that? But, we put up with it all the time. We so willingly go along with what the "authorities" say. There are people who will argue things which just are not true, but they don't take the time to think for themselves.

Are you a teenager? people on drugs DONT leave others alone, never have, never will, they nearly always lead (i'm talking hard drugs here) to crime, be it theft or whatever, to help support the habit, according to your logic, we may as well be able to kill each other, God apparently gave us weapons too....., it's endless, the reason drugs are illegal is because people on hard drugs effect others 99% of the time, and I may or may not know this from 1st as well as 2nd hand experience , same reason drink driving is illegal, there's a good chance you'll get home safely, also a good chance of killing someone, the drugs are the same, they totally ruin lives, and theyr'e illegal, imagine if they weren't, imagine how f*d our society would be then, the powers that be generally aren't out there to ruin things, or take away fun, laws are made to protect us from some asshole with a machette cutting off our hands because some dickhead decided it would be cool to not sleep for a week.....

[firefighter]

I think the main issue is lack of ACCURATE education
Contrary to popular belief cannabis does NOT kill brain cells (although alcohol does) yet every time we were talked to about drugs at school it was pushed on us that weed kills brain cells.
A lot of people who talk about drugs don't have accurate knowledge of them.
I dont pretend to know what the answer is but surely there is something better than the current legislation?
And there are many medical uses for cannabis, I think that AT LEAST it should be available for medicinal use. You can get little devices that monitor the dose and frequency of use, that contain concentrated THC (active ingredient in cannabis), now where is the harm in this?
Oh and nicotine is not chemically more addictive than heroin though has massive psychological component.

Yep, but it has been proven to have twice the amount of tar in it compared with tobacco, i'm not for or against the stuff, just know whats in it, check it on google.It's not nearly as innocent as I at a younger age percieved it to be, and I saw one of my stoner mates from high school recently, still on it, thick as shit, and when I took it so was I.you can't tell me the shit doesn't hurt your brain at all.....just because there's no "scientific" evidence, doesn't mean you ignore what's right in front of your face, it does make people simple.

[jrandom]

Most people have no clue why all the drugs are illegal. Most don't think about it.

Best point so far in this thread.

Most people, without realising it, reason along the line "Things are the way they are because that's how they are".

Also, to paraphrase the cop who ticketed me yesterday for doing 120kph along the plains on the Napier-Taupo road, "Doesn't matter whether or not it's safe; it's illegal."

Good luck getting the Average Citizen to consider the merits of social policies independently from the current legal situation. Most people aren't capable of questioning authority to that extent.

Now, to all of you reading this thread and feeling righteously indignant, yet impotent, might I direct you to the only political party in New Zealand advocating sensible cannabis law reform?

Labour's a bunch of corrupt slimeballs, and National's a bunch of bumbling fools. Consider giving your party vote this election to an organisation that fights (when it's not sitting around baked) for a clear goal that you agree with.

[RC1]

must be time to ROLL up me thinks

[scumdog]

Now, to all of you reading this thread and feeling righteously indignant, yet impotent, might I direct you to the only political party in New Zealand advocating sensible cannabis law reform?

I'd give 'em more time if they foccused on the alcohol related problems instead of wanting to have cannabis 'legalised'

As I've said before: We have a shark in the pool and somebody wants to release a barracuda as well? -Because it's not as dangerous as the shark??

[jrandom]

I'd give 'em more time if they foccused on the alcohol related problems instead of wanting to have cannabis 'legalised'

Maybe if cannabis was legal, commercially quality-controlled, and cheaper, folk would spend more time baked and happy and less time drunk and angry?

As I've said before: We have a shark in the pool and somebody wants to release a barracuda as well?

Flawed analogy.

The barracuda's already in the pool, and it'll always be in the pool - this is a question of taming it, fencing it off and selling tickets to see it instead of pretending that it's not there and then making futile posturings about getting rid of it every time people go swimming and get bitten.

[scumdog]

Flawed analogy.

The barracuda's already in the pool, and it'll always be in the pool - this is a question of taming it, fencing it off and selling tickets to see it instead of pretending that it's not there and then making futile posturings about getting rid of it every time people go swimming and get bitten.

OK, just to make it simple - there a CAGED barracuda in thepool and some people get into the cage with it with quite a few being bitten......and certain people want to release it.

And a shitload of my experiences with hooter-users is that a lot of 'em cuddle up to Mr Beams product when they get stoned, it's not often "I do weed so I don't touch alcamahol" old boy..

[jrandom]

And a shitload of my experiences with hooter-users is that a lot of 'em cuddle up to Mr Beams product when they get stoned, it's not often "I do weed so I don't touch alcamahol" old boy..

Well, I suppose so.

Personally, if I mix 'em, it's a fast half-hour countdown to spending the rest of the night getting nudged in the ribs for snoring too loudly.



Do you think that allowing more personal responsibility and ensuring swift and fair penalties for abuse of that responsibility would be a good approach?

One imagines violent, abusive drunk-and-stoned sorts quickly ending up out of circulation in more efficient prisons than we have at the moment, and useless layabout wastrels quickly discovering that drugs imply starvation.

Unfortunately, it seems almost impossible to find a political party that combines the above approaches without also advocating freakish and unworkable economic policy fantasies (Libertarianz, of course, being Exhibit A).

[Mikkel]

I'd give 'em more time if they foccused on the alcohol related problems instead of wanting to have cannabis 'legalised'

As I've said before: We have a shark in the pool and somebody wants to release a barracuda as well? -Because it's not as dangerous as the shark??

So you'd propose prohibiting alcohol?

The main underlying problem with these things, as I see it, is that by prohibiting a commodity which is desired by many and needed by a few you create an oppotunity for the black market economy.

There's no doubt whatsoever that those who fear legalisation of drugs the most would be criminals who make their living by providing a service - that the lawabiding society does not - and charges a premium for it.

You cannot prevent the population from taking drugs through prohibition. Consider a place like Thailand where some of the most draconian laws regarding drug trafficking are in place. Still, I don't think anyone who has actually travelled in Thailand would disagree with me if I state that, it is actually easier to get just about any drug, you could imagine, there.

Furthermore - when we're talking drugs (alcohol included) distributed by a blackmarket network you run the additional risk of impure goods. In the case of alcohol you may risk methanol traces, when it comes to ecstacy you face the risk of dubious chemical compounds in the pills, etc, etc. This fact helps to make the drugs much much more dangerous than if you actually knew what was in them and thus able to make an informed choice about what you consume.

Ultimately, drug distribution by a blackmarket network causes the price of the drugs to go up. The manufacturers and distributors are taking inherent risks and expect to be compensated for this. As such the market price for illegal drugs is much higher than it would have to be. A person who is addicted to a substance will still find a way to pay the price for the needed drugs - elevated prices just means that the addict has to commit more crime to fund the habit. I don't think that there's a clear picture of how much petty crime is related to drugs in one way or the other - but you can be certain it's a lot!

Education,
Information
and openmindedness - with that we might be able to solve the problem.

[alanzs]

Are you a teenager? people on drugs DONT leave others alone, never have, never will, they nearly always lead (i'm talking hard drugs here) to crime, be it theft or whatever, to help support the habit, according to your logic, we may as well be able to kill each other, God apparently gave us weapons too....., it's endless, the reason drugs are illegal is because people on hard drugs effect others 99% of the time, and I may or may not know this from 1st as well as 2nd hand experience , same reason drink driving is illegal, there's a good chance you'll get home safely, also a good chance of killing someone, the drugs are the same, they totally ruin lives, and theyr'e illegal, imagine if they weren't, imagine how f*d our society would be then, the powers that be generally aren't out there to ruin things, or take away fun, laws are made to protect us from some asshole with a machette cutting off our hands because some dickhead decided it would be cool to not sleep for a week.....

Be honest, did you even take the time to read the first post of this thread? What about it isn't clear to you? What part doesn't make sense?

I'll quote part of the article for you:
The mission of the criminal justice system should always be to protect us from one another and not from ourselves. That means that drug users who drive a motor vehicle or commit other crimes while under the influence of these drugs would continue to be held criminally responsible for their actions, with strict penalties. But that said, the system should not be used to protect us from ourselves.

Ending drug prohibition, taxing and regulating drugs and spending tax dollars to treat addiction and dependency are the approaches that many of the world's industrialized countries are taking. Those approaches are ones that work.

And, no, I'm not a teenager, but even as a teenager, I was taught to think and take responsibility for my actions.

[scumdog]

Why should my tax-dollars be spent 'helping' addicts who (mostly) knew the possible outcome of the soiree into the drug-world???

I doubt many will have thought "Shit, I never knew THAT was a possible outcome" as their life goes down the gurgler and their hand is constantly being held out..