Police lose Duff case

[Grahameeboy]

There are two issues, though:

1. Boundary cases, such as the actions of our ginger friend in the northwest, and the apparently-rather-unreasonable lady who pulled over Mr Duff - such individuals should not be allowed to get away with excesses or abuse of their authority.

2. Frog in the Pot Syndrome; gradual erosion of standards over the years can make what you and I would both clearly define as 'fascism' something that our grandchildren would excuse with mealy-mouthed weasel words.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, etc...

Peace be with you..............

[SixPackBack]

What about any special conditions that might be detailed on the back of the licence? I have this mental image of a motorist holding their licence up to a closed window while the cop bends at the waist and peers into the window in an attempt to read the details on the licence and then uses sign language to get the motorist to flip the licence over so he can use his magnifying glass to read the conditions printed on the back of the card.

Seems reasonable

[avgas]

Nope my post was moved to PD as i expressed an opinion. Or mabey it was due to the fact that i used a bad word.
So let me retype it to KB standards.
When i cop pulls you over you sit and bloomin wait for the cop to finish with you before you leave.
Man that is such a diet coke version of what i wrote originally. Sounds GAY

[marty]

i don't think there'll be an appeal.

what there will be, is an application for an amendment to the Act.

mr duff has just done what 100's of drink drivers have done over the years - found a loophole, that will now be closed. check out the drink driving legislation - it has closed so tight now that there is no room for anyone to move. roadside stops will go the same way.

[swbarnett]

i don't think there'll be an appeal.

what there will be, is an application for an amendment to the Act.

mr duff has just done what 100's of drink drivers have done over the years - found a loophole, that will now be closed. check out the drink driving legislation - it has closed so tight now that there is no room for anyone to move. roadside stops will go the same way.

Unfortunately you can't close this kind of "loophole" without another erosion of personal liberties.

The police see loophole, I see basic human right.

[marty]

i can just see it happening. the 15 minutes is already in - it will extend to force motorists stopped, to wait for the process to be complete.

do yo really think the govt cares about the erosion of personal liberty?

[swbarnett]

i can just see it happening. the 15 minutes is already in - it will extend to force motorists stopped, to wait for the process to be complete.

do yo really think the govt cares about the erosion of personal liberty?

No, it's not a vote winner.

Boiling frog syndrome.

[Ixion]

Actually the already amended it , after the Sir Robert case.

They added Sect 2A

[(2A)Subject to subsections (4) and (5), the driver of a vehicle that is stopped by an enforcement officer under this Act must remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for the enforcement officer to complete the exercise of any powers conferred, or duties imposed, on an enforcement officer by this Act.]

Which still does not give unlimited or arbitrary detention. But, to amend past that would bring them smack up against the Bill of Rights.

[Max Preload]

i don't think there'll be an appeal.

what there will be, is an application for an amendment to the Act.

mr duff has just done what 100's of drink drivers have done over the years - found a loophole, that will now be closed. check out the drink driving legislation - it has closed so tight now that there is no room for anyone to move. roadside stops will go the same way.

The 'loophole' has also been used by Bob Jones many years ago - I doubt an ammendment will be made any time soon.

[Max Preload]

Actually the already amended it , after the Sir Robert case.

They added Sect 2A

Which still does not give unlimited or arbitrary detention. But, to amend past that would bring them smack up against the Bill of Rights.

Doh! Got to learn to read all the new posts before posting.

[Patrick]

If you have nothing to hide, why run and hide.

Sums it all up really - but apparently that is facist. Pfffttt.....

In practice, a reasonable cop is never going to have a problem. And it shouldn't take more than five minutes at most.

In reality, that is what it is...

i don't think there'll be an appeal. what there will be, is an application for an amendment to the Act.

I don't think there will be an appeal either... just got bored reading the lawyer speak... but quite right about the amendment/new law...

The 'loophole' has also been used by Bob Jones many years ago - I doubt an ammendment will be made any time soon.

JONES was different - he was stopped because of who he was and he was driving a nice car, nothing more. He got about $15000 from memory for that... Naughty Policeman - no donut!

[Speedracer]

What about any special conditions that might be detailed on the back of the licence? I have this mental image of a motorist holding their licence up to a closed window while the cop bends at the waist and peers into the window in an attempt to read the details on the licence and then uses sign language to get the motorist to flip the licence over so he can use his magnifying glass to read the conditions printed on the back of the card.

This is how I read it so far:

Imagine this scenario
"I left my license at home"
Name
Address
Date Of Birth
I own this bike
see ya

As soon as you let them touch it they'll make a grab for it so what other option is there to stop them wasting your time. And I still haven't seen a quote from law that says you have to hand over your license. You have to carry it, so in theory you have to produce it to avoid a ticket. If you don't have one how can you show it so you will be waiting forever. The requirement to carry must be simply for identity in the first place.

So if you have a license

"An enforcement officer may require a driver to remain stopped on a road for as long as is reasonably necessary to enable the officer to establish the identity of the driver,"

"See this officer," - point to picture, name, date of birth
"I am XXX born on XXX. I own this vehicle. I live at XXX. Have a nice day"
drive off.

Cop can look up the rest of the information on their system if it comes to it, this includes driving restrictions otherwise not carrying your license would be a bonus if you only had a learners car and drove a 1L bike.

Of course if you were doing license losing speeds or dangerous driving or theres a shotgun in the back seat there will be additional reasons for you to stay stopped.

[Skyryder]

The Police are appealing the decision. Anyone got an update??


Skyryder

[scumdog]

This is how I read it so far:

Imagine this scenario
"I left my license at home"
Name
Address
Date Of Birth
I own this bike
see ya

As soon as you let them touch it they'll make a grab for it so what other option is there to stop them wasting your time. And I still haven't seen a quote from law that says you have to hand over your license. You have to carry it, so in theory you have to produce it to avoid a ticket. If you don't have one how can you show it so you will be waiting forever. The requirement to carry must be simply for identity in the first place.

So if you have a license

"An enforcement officer may require a driver to remain stopped on a road for as long as is reasonably necessary to enable the officer to establish the identity of the driver,"

"See this officer," - point to picture, name, date of birth
"I am XXX born on XXX. I own this vehicle. I live at XXX. Have a nice day"
drive off.

Cop can look up the rest of the information on their system if it comes to it, this includes driving restrictions otherwise not carrying your license would be a bonus if you only had a learners car and drove a 1L bike.

Of course if you were doing license losing speeds or dangerous driving or theres a shotgun in the back seat there will be additional reasons for you to stay stopped.

Whooee, another bush lawyer goona get some poor sod into trouble if he believes all the above.

Producing a licence does not guarantee you're meant to have one for a start and I could go on but I'll not spoil the fun,.. carry on.

Mwahahahahah.......

[Max Preload]

Whooee, another bush lawyer goona get some poor sod into trouble if he believes all the above.

I, for one, fail to see how this is bush-lawyer-esk since a Judge has ruled that it is lawful, and that the arbitrary arrest of Duff was not. Are you a bush cop?