08 ninja 250 vs 92 mc22.

[vtec]

Vtec, what kind of mods are they running for the extra ponies on the MC22? I'm guessing exhaust, but what else?

Yeah, fancy exhaust systems and extractors, cut open airboxes, rejetting and a good dynotune.

One of the guys is running a Kawasaki Balius 250 with 38 hp at the wheel. But he's skimmed his head, put zxr cams in it, bigger carbs, and dynotuned.

I think I'm the only one running a stock bike.

[The Pastor]

I've done all that to my mc22 apart from skimming the head + dyno tune, that will prob be the next step tho.

Best bet to make your bike faster? Suspension.

Lists of mods ive done

Larger rear sprocket.
Emulators in forks.
Up size jets
Get rid completely of airbox (running open carbs)
Full custom chambers exhaust (larger diameter headers and collector free flowing mufler)
Racing cams in it (at least thats what the guy said when I bought it)
new bar ends

Mods being done

Full paint job.

Mods to be done:

Skim the head?
dynotune (really need to do this!)
Let rob loose on my rear suspension.

Non mod work to be done:

Engine rebuild (piston rings head gasket etc)
Valves checked + adjusted

When its back on the road, its going to be a 600-1000cc killa (i.e., out corner them / keep up with them!).

Always love it when you get off on at a gas station and someone riding a ducati 999 says "is that 600 or 400?" eh ducatihard

[ZK-Awesome]

0 - 100KPH
Ninja 250R: 5.75 seconds
MC22: 5.2 +- seconds
'72 CB175: ∞ - bike incapable of 100kph

Was anyone else surprised when he said his cb175 doesnt do 100? I thought it would easily...?

[imdying]

It's not a fair comparison.

One is a learner/commuter bike tarted up to appeal to young guys, built in an era of 'you must not pollute', and designed to be able to be sold in world market.

The other is basically a scaled down super sport, built in an era where pollution wasn't on the radar, and was only ever to be sold in the Japanese market.

Other than being a 250 with fairings, they have little in common.

I'm guessing the reason that the Ninja is being choked is the 33bhp limit in the UK? Given that the CBR250 is also choked due to the laws in Japan at the time of its construction, then really neither is showing its true potential in any case.

[The Pastor]

the 45hp the mc22 is claimed to have = 180hp/L.

Came out in 1989.

Pretty cool heh?

[cowboyz]

especially if you put a 21 Litre tank on it. Thats 3780 Horses but if must feel a bit weak after going on reserve with only 4 litres left.

[The Pastor]

especially if you put a 21 Litre tank on it. Thats 3780 Horses but if must feel a bit weak after going on reserve with only 4 litres left.

Yeah, I run my oil in my tank like a 2stoke so I get an extra 400hp.

[megaphat]

It's not a fair comparison.
One is a learner/commuter bike tarted up to appeal to young guys, built in an era of 'you must not pollute', and designed to be able to be sold in world market.

The other is basically a scaled down super sport, built in an era where pollution wasn't on the radar, and was only ever to be sold in the Japanese market.

Other than being a 250 with fairings, they have little in common.

I'm guessing the reason that the Ninja is being choked is the 33bhp limit in the UK? Given that the CBR250 is also choked due to the laws in Japan at the time of its construction, then really neither is showing its true potential in any case.

I agree on both those points. People have said that the CBR250 series was a test mule for honda's later technologies in the bigger bikes (DOHC, 4 valves etc). It was limited to 45hp due to japanese law (then 40hp after 1993). But still a very fast bike for those limited to 250cc motorcycles (many people in japan). Bearing in mind, those HP figures are at the crank.

But in the last 15 years, the world has become more restrictive. Catalytic converters, learner laws, peer pressure etc. You end up with a 2008 ninja 250r which produces 25hp atw. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lam_T3bDcBk
This compares with the ~33 to ~39hp seen on stock CBR250RR's. So you could have 50% more power on a pre 1994 CBR250RR (over a new 2008 ninja), IF it hasn't lost too many horses.
Don't kid yourself on that one. An old, run down bike won't be as fast as the same new bike. But if its well maintained and holds pressure, maybe.

Interestingly europe gets a fuel injected version of the 2008 ninja. It has slightly less power, but i'm sure the effort saved (in starting/running/maintaining) is worth it. Now THAT might make me give up my mc22.

[The Pastor]

It's not a fair comparison.

Wrong, they both compete for the same customers.

The customer has the choice.

Mc22

or 08ninja 250.

Therefore, you can and rightfully compare the two.

You can't compare large cc sports bikes to a cruisers as they target differnt markets.

You can compare a sports (mc22) to a sports look a like (250 ninja 08).

You can compare a sports 250 to a crusier 250 as they target the same market (being learners).

Its the way things work.

[vtec]

Hey renegade master, just in case you try. You can't skim the head on CBR250 engine, or any engine with gear driven cams. The only reason why they can on the kawasaki's is because they have chain driven cams with a chain tensioner. The advantage with skimming the head is that it increases the compression ratio... at the cost of engine life and the increased risk of valves hitting pistons. Don't bother. The factories did great jobs on the stock engines.

And the CBR250RR is about 5.0seconds 0-100kph not the 5.2 quoted. I'm sure with a light rider and some talent it would go under 5 seconds. Maybe I could do it even with my 70kg mass.

The fuel injected GPX250 is very similar horsepower to the carbed one I've read somewhere.

Hmm that's a good theory. A test mule. Well they were built to an extremely high (racey) standard for a road focussed bike. I'm not sure why, I just know that it wasn't very profitable making the CBR250RR's. I was about as quick on my 250RR as HDTBoy was on his 400RR around Manfeild. They are an amazing little machine. Last time I raced it (Taupo short circuit) in F3 I came seventh out of 24 bikes, none of the 400's beat me, only 6 SV650's out of the field.

Also, if they have compression they should be running pretty much full power. The weakest 250RR I've come across is the one I'm racing in Aussie at the moment. I bought it as a write off, and the oil was like tar when I changed it. Smokes a bit more than the average too. But I've still won the 250 4stroke class on it here at Philip Island. Noticeably slower than the other 250's though. So even at 20 years old, if they've had their oil changes they should still be near full power at 100,000k's. My one's got 50,000k's but obviously hasn't been looked after.

[The Pastor]

Hey renegade master, just in case you try. You can't skim the head on CBR250 engine, or any engine with gear driven cams. The only reason why they can on the kawasaki's is because they have chain driven cams with a chain tensioner. The advantage with skimming the head is that it increases the compression ratio... at the cost of engine life and the increased risk of valves hitting pistons. Don't bother. The factories did great jobs on the stock engines.

And the CBR250RR is about 5.0seconds 0-100kph not the 5.2 quoted. I'm sure with a light rider and some talent it would go under 5 seconds. Maybe I could do it even with my 70kg mass.

The fuel injected GPX250 is very similar horsepower to the carbed one I've read somewhere.

Hmm that's a good theory. A test mule. Well they were built to an extremely high (racey) standard for a road focussed bike. I'm not sure why, I just know that it wasn't very profitable making the CBR250RR's. I was about as quick on my 250RR as HDTBoy was on his 400RR around Manfeild. They are an amazing little machine. Last time I raced it (Taupo short circuit) in F3 I came seventh out of 24 bikes, none of the 400's beat me, only 6 SV650's out of the field.

Also, if they have compression they should be running pretty much full power. The weakest 250RR I've come across is the one I'm racing in Aussie at the moment. I bought it as a write off, and the oil was like tar when I changed it. Smokes a bit more than the average too. But I've still won the 250 4stroke class on it here at Philip Island. Noticeably slower than the other 250's though. So even at 20 years old, if they've had their oil changes they should still be near full power at 100,000k's. My one's got 50,000k's but obviously hasn't been looked after.

Yeah, i can't wait to get on the track.

[imdying]

One is a learner/commuter bike tarted up to appeal to young guys, built in an era of 'you must not pollute', and designed to be able to be sold in world market.

The other is basically a scaled down super sport, built in an era where pollution wasn't on the radar, and was only ever to be sold in the Japanese market.

Wrong, they both compete for the same customers.

No, they were both aimed at different markets. Who their second hand market customers are doesn't matter a shit, if it wasn't for the people who brought them originally, there would be no second hand bikes anyway.

[The Pastor]

No, they were both aimed at different markets. Who their second hand market customers are doesn't matter a shit, if it wasn't for the people who brought them originally, there would be no second hand bikes anyway.

the mc22 was built for the learner market in japan.

and who gives a shit what the company wanted anyway.

the facts are this, people want a learner bike.

They are going to compare the mc22 to the new ninja. (unless they dont research the bikes, and just buy one with no real thought put into it )