"Faith Based" units in prisons.

[007XX]

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals. Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.
Punishment just makes the crim harder, more violent. Come on 007, we all know our current prisons are just schools for teaching crime. They leave worse, more dangerous men than they came in.

Don't get me wrong, if the addition of any faith makes a jot of difference to the mentality of even one crim, then I'm more than happy to see it implemented. But to be quite honnest, I'm not holding my breath.

What pisses me of is when I hear that they have to have under floor heating as well as TVs available, because of Human rights...How is making their stay more comfortable going to amke them redeem themselves and turn over a new leaf eh?

[The Pastor]

Don't get me wrong, if the addition of any faith makes a jot of difference to the mentality of even one crim, then I'm more than happy to see it implemented. But to be quite honnest, I'm not holding my breath.

What pisses me of is when I hear that they have to have under floor heating as well as TVs available, because of Human rights...How is making their stay more comfortable going to amke them redeem themselves and turn over a new leaf eh?

go spend a night at mt eden, and tell me if you find underfloor heating and tvs

[007XX]

go spend a night at mt eden, and tell me if you find underfloor heating and tvs

You obviously speak from experience...care to share with the class?

[paturoa]

....Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.

I disagree.

It is at supposed to be about both, one being a deterant, and one being a "fix".

There is argueably (sp?) a 3rd reason and that is the state dishing out the revenge for the victims.

[Ixion]

If he met the other criteria and said he was "willing to explore the Christian faith", then why not?

The "minimum-to-low-medium security status" might perhaps be a little suspect given his willingness to bash another prisoner ?

[imdying]

What pisses me of is when I hear that they have to have under floor heating

Makes the most sense... no grates, pipes or cords to pull off and assault another inmate with. I'd be using flat screens if I were them, so I could put it under an inch of acrylic.

/edit: I'd rather pay upfront for a bomb proof installation rather than having to pay to replace whatever they break on a regular basis.

[imdying]

The "minimum-to-low-medium security status" might perhaps be a little suspect given his willingness to bash another prisoner ?

To be fair, I'm not even in prison and I can think of plenty of people I'd beat the crap out of given the chance... I'd start with that wanker and his samurai sword.

[jrandom]

I'm not even in prison and I can think of plenty of people I'd beat the crap out of given the chance...

Well, your Christianity has obviously encouraged a mild-tempered approach to life.

[Ixion]

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals. Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.
Punishment just makes the crim harder, more violent. Come on 007, we all know our current prisons are just schools for teaching crime. They leave worse, more dangerous men than they came in.


..

But, if prisons be ONLY about rehabilitation, then there are many incarcerated without reason. If rehabilitation be the justification, how would you deal with one of those ancient sex cases that come up from time to time. Some 80 year old geezer, sent inside for screwing a 24 year old when he was 20? 60 years ago, no offending since (let us assume); and at 80 hardly likely to be much risk in the future? hard to see how any rehabilitation is required? So should such a one be imprisoned at all, in your mind?

Note that I myself am not arguing one way or the other. I have an undecided mind on such matters.

[Badjelly]

The "minimum-to-low-medium security status" might perhaps be a little suspect given his willingness to bash another prisoner?

In hindsight, yes.

[Ixion]

True. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It is not fair to expect the authorities never to make a wrong call.

[jrandom]

Note that I myself am not arguing one way or the other. I have an undecided mind on such matters.

IMHO, the need for righteous vengeance is basic to the human psyche, and should be acknowledged by society, rather than swept under the carpet and derided (almost always by those who have never been in a situation which would prompt it) as somehow 'lessening' folk who experience it.

All questions of prevention and rehabilitation aside, victims of crime have a moral right to see the perpetrators thereof punished. Enabling that is healthy, natural, and just.

[007XX]

Makes the most sense... no grates, pipes or cords to pull off and assault another inmate with. I'd be using flat screens if I were them, so I could put it under an inch of acrylic.

/edit: I'd rather pay upfront for a bomb proof installation rather than having to pay to replace whatever they break on a regular basis.

funny you should mention flat screens...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10485081


And why would it be that the government doesn't want to let the people know how much the under floor heating costs?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0606/S00564.htm

[avgas]

yor'n.

Wasn't he in ABBA?

I'm not to fazed about the faith based units. It filters out the suicide bombers and the nuts who have samurai swords.

[Badjelly]

But seriously folks, assuming you think rehabilitation of prisoners is a good thing in some circumstances, is it, can it be, a good thing to have "faith-based" rehabilitation units? Ranty Dave doesn't like the idea and, as an atheist, I'm a wee bit uncomfortable with it myself. Steam says they work, but hasn't told us why he thinks that.

Religious people like to think that religion provides a basis (the only basis?) for morality and that religious belief makes people good. When they see religious people behaving badly, they tend to explain it away by saying the people in question don't truly believe. (For if they did, how could they behave this way?) Thus the easy assumption that religious belief = goodness is unassailable by evidence to the contrary.

Personally, I see no problem with encouraging & rewarding prisoners for good behaviour, but I don't think claiming to believe something counts as evidence of future good behaviour.