Bike test online - my thoughts

[cowboyz]

Why not? It's a good skill to have. Sometimes its unavoidable like on a good twisty road - you are hardly ever upright anyhow if one corner blends in to the next. In fact I love roads like that! Braking smoothly (not in panic mode) while cranking over and heading for the apex is fun!

However for this reason I hate bikes that try to stand up under brakes. An RZ500 I used to have was bad for that. Me SV is very neutral for braking, getting on the gas etc when in a corner and just holds its line. Sweet!

While maintaining control of your bike is a good skill to have, braking while cornering is a bad habit to adapt. On a good twisty road (aka biker heaven) I will near never use the brakes at all. Maybe some light adjustment on the short striaghts or while the bike is upright in the transistion from one corner to the other.
Of course, different bikes respond differently to all sorts of things. The 9, for instance, hates braking into corners with a passion. If you are on the front brakes going into a corner then nothing is going to convince the bike to go round a corner. It stands up and all the swinging off it isnt going to make it turn. Maybe this is where my style comes from, not only do I think it is a bad idea to brake into corners but my bike makes it impossible to do so.

Yeah, the 'where do you put newbies in a group' question is weird. But you have to remember when doing license tests to answer the questions to road law/the road code - NOT what you think.

Road law lags reality by a bit, and it also lives in a theoretical ideal world.

So as we live in a PC bullshit world, wouldnt the correct response to that question be "Where the learner rider feels the most comfortable in the group"

angry man alert. this should be fun.

read the fuckin' question properly.
I did read the mother fucking cunt of a question.


You did set the tone.
If you must slow in a curve, how should you do this?
And who decides on this word must? A Learner rider with very little appreciation on what a motorcycle is capable of? So instead of teaching and reinforcing slow in, fast out theories and teaching one how to ride, lets give newbies the idea that it is ok to brake mid corner because they consider no other option. I wonder if this is where the so common excuses are coming from when one bins. Oh, I had no other option, It was a must.
as in, if you have to, if you find carrots half way through the bend, if you go in too hot and need to brake in the corner, only if you absolutely have to, no one condones braking in every corner, but, should you have to this is how you do it.

apply both brakes gently

why?

because it keeps the weight on the tires even, applying on back break will move the weight of the bike to the rear and could result in slipping, braking on the front will move the weight forward and could result in the front slipping.

by applying evenly the weight stays level and your grip consistent, of course we all know it's 3/4 front and 1/4 rear power so whatever you put on the back you have to apply 3x less on the front, and we are talking very very light braking here.

And here we go.

So here is 2 thories on what to do when things start to go pear shaped. (or carrot shaped if you prefer)

1. Realise that you are too hot into a corner and need to change lines.
2. Apply 33% of braking force to the front brake at the same time as applying 66% of braking force to the rear.
3. be sure not to brake "too hard" Apply brakes gently and consistantly - ensuring to maintain a 1/3 2/3 ratio of pressure on the brakes.
4. Change your line to a more desirable line.
5. Release brakes and accelerate through rest of corner.


OR

1. Realise that you are too hot into a corner and need to change lines.
2. Pick a safe line
3. throttle off to run bike wide.
4. maintain throttle and lean focusing on the inside of the corner to run a narrower line.


thoughts?






Oh yeah, mother fucker. (I nearly forgot to drag the tone down again. sorry about that)

[Monie]

now now calm down you lot take a chill pill ............ it is only a decussion ........ [ and i can not spell ]

[alanzs]

"How much of a motorcycles braking comes from its front brake (half / 2 thirds / all / etc).
Now, the correct answer when braking close to capacity on a modern bike is all or at least a high ninety-something percent. But the road code correct answer is 2 thirds."

What is the correct answer? How much braking power does the front brake exert? Anyone with real technical expertise know the answer to this age old question?

[KingJackaL]

"How much of a motorcycles braking comes from its front brake (half / 2 thirds / all / etc).
Now, the correct answer when braking close to capacity on a modern bike is all or at least a high ninety-something percent. But the road code correct answer is 2 thirds."

What is the correct answer? How much braking power does the front brake exert? Anyone with real technical expertise know the answer to this age old question?

I can't, but my instructor (who had an 'I' endorsement, and raced motorbikes, so I'd call that quite some expertise) said "99%". Of course, he can probably do stoppies in the wet on command :|.

[dipshit]

While maintaining control of your bike is a good skill to have, braking while cornering is a bad habit to adapt.

I agree. Perhaps 90% of my cornering will be slow in - fast out. Not charging in hot. Some sections of roads are so twisty though, that you do not get upright from one corner to the next sometimes. On my SV I am quite comfortable braking deeper into corners in those situations. In fact I find it lots of fun! The plus side is that if I ever find myself going in too fast into any corner, then I am also comfortable scrubbing off extra speed with brakes. It is another option for me.

On a good twisty road (aka biker heaven) I will near never use the brakes at all. Maybe some light adjustment on the short striaghts or while the bike is upright in the transistion from one corner to the other.

My god. :slap:

The 9, for instance, hates braking into corners with a passion. If you are on the front brakes going into a corner then nothing is going to convince the bike to go round a corner. It stands up and all the swinging off it isnt going to make it turn.

As I said, I hate riding bikes with that trait. I find them very unforgiving and dangerous.

Maybe this is where my style comes from, not only do I think it is a bad idea to brake into corners but my bike makes it impossible to do so.

I think you would be quite surprised at the difference riding a bike that doesn't stand up under brakes makes.

So here is 2 thories on what to do when things start to go pear shaped. (or carrot shaped if you prefer)

1. Realise that you are too hot into a corner and need to change lines.
2. Apply 33% of braking force to the front brake at the same time as applying 66% of braking force to the rear.
3. be sure not to brake "too hard" Apply brakes gently and consistantly - ensuring to maintain a 1/3 2/3 ratio of pressure on the brakes.
4. Change your line to a more desirable line.
5. Release brakes and accelerate through rest of corner.


OR

1. Realise that you are too hot into a corner and need to change lines.
2. Pick a safe line
3. throttle off to run bike wide.
4. maintain throttle and lean focusing on the inside of the corner to run a narrower line.


thoughts?

ALL of the above! It's always good to have options. If you are use to and comfortable with braking into a corner and are familiar with how your bike behaves and feels, then it will come automatically and instinctively rather than panicking and thinking about 33% 66% crap.

[Sanx]

Why is a motorcycle often not seen by other road users?

The answer Because most cagers are the kind of fuckwits that don't even throw the slightest glance in the direction of oncoming traffic before manouvering seems oddly absent.

As for questions I got wrong:
When riding in groups, it is best to place beginner riders: in the front of the group behind the leader

Purely subjective. It's customary for them to be at the back of the group, with an experienced tail end charlie to be around if anything happens.

If you must slow in a curve, how should you do this: Use both brakes on your motorcycle but only gently

Depends on how much you need to slow down. I'll generally use engine braking if I think I'm going too fast for a corner.

What is one of the most common causes of skidding: Overbraking on one or both wheels

I answered Wet roads. Yes, one of the more common reasons for 'skidding' on wet roads in overbraking, but it's hard to say which is the predominant factor.

If you get a blowout or puncture on your motorcycle you should: close the throttle and slow down gradually

I answered brake gently using the brake on the wheel that does not have the puncture.

[sinfull]

Of course, different bikes respond differently to all sorts of things. The 9, for instance, hates braking into corners with a passion. If you are on the front brakes going into a corner then nothing is going to convince the bike to go round a corner. It stands up and all the swinging off it isnt going to make it turn. Maybe this is where my style comes from, not only do I think it is a bad idea to brake into corners but my bike makes it impossible to do so.

I too find that if i go in far too hot (happens a bit) touching the brake is an option i can only look at if there is time that i can hit the front hard and then pick a new line quickly, as even a touch on the front will have it wanting to stand upright !
Think alot of the fixation thing comes to play then with some ! Like wow too fast, touch the front brake, find yrself upright in a corner, panic and stay on the brake thinking i ammmm goooiiinnnngggg tttooooo hhhhiiittttt ttthhhaaaaaaattttttttttt bbbbaaaaannnnnnnnnkkkkkk wwwaaayyyyy oooovvvveeeerrrr ttthhhheeeerrrreeeeeeeeeee !
Nowdays my opinion is, i picked that speed to enter the corner, time to trust me tires a bit further !

Though i do remember getting told off at in WMC once 20 yr ago, when i said i needed proressive springs in front as i was diving in when braking round corners and it was explained to me that you were spose to brake into the corner and power out ! To which i retorted, mate some of them corners (i lived in featherston at the time) i'm braking alllllllll the way round !
So it can be done, but then why would a learner be flying hot into any, let alone every corner !

[Dave-]

You did set the tone.

And who decides on this word must? A Learner rider with very little appreciation on what a motorcycle is capable of? So instead of teaching and reinforcing slow in, fast out theories and teaching one how to ride, lets give newbies the idea that it is ok to brake mid corner because they consider no other option. I wonder if this is where the so common excuses are coming from when one bins. Oh, I had no other option, It was a must.

And here we go.

So here is 2 thories on what to do when things start to go pear shaped. (or carrot shaped if you prefer)

1. Realise that you are too hot into a corner and need to change lines.
2. Apply 33% of braking force to the front brake at the same time as applying 66% of braking force to the rear.
3. be sure not to brake "too hard" Apply brakes gently and consistantly - ensuring to maintain a 1/3 2/3 ratio of pressure on the brakes.
4. Change your line to a more desirable line.
5. Release brakes and accelerate through rest of corner.


OR

1. Realise that you are too hot into a corner and need to change lines.
2. Pick a safe line
3. throttle off to run bike wide.
4. maintain throttle and lean focusing on the inside of the corner to run a narrower line.


thoughts?






Oh yeah, mother fucker. (I nearly forgot to drag the tone down again. sorry about that)

it's cool how 1 fuckin' can set someone ablaze like that...I'm not angry dude, but i can see how the fuckin came out aggressively.

anyway

"if you must" has always meant to me "only if you absolutely have to", and yes I'd condone it if you had to, certainly not for every single corner as a riding style.

I never said to apply 33% braking to the front and 66% to the rear, but i can see how you think that, what i mean is the front is 2/3 and the rear is 1/3 of your bikes braking ability, if you have both brakes held to the point where the tyre is spinning its slowest without skidding then you're effectively at 100% braking ability, 66% of that is in the front 33% is in the rear, however I agree that a new rider probably wont know this, nor will they know how to brake at 100% effectiveness. What i mean is you should keep the ratio close, if you apply 4% to the front then apply 12% to the rear, but hey i don't have a percentage gauge on my handle bars, nor would I be looking at it while in a pear shaped corner.

*- I've actually gone and got myself all confused now, is it 3/4 in the front 1/4 in the back or 2/3 in the front and 1/3 in the rear? :S....and now google is telling me it's between 60-80%...sigh

your step by step program on correct procedure is flawed, you over complicate my system while over simplifying your own.

to put it personally when i go into a corner and find a need to change line I apply my front the lightest touch, the rear a slightly heavier touch (but still light, about as much as if i was dragging the rear over bumps), the bike lifts slightly (if you applied to just 1 then the bike would lift higher) you can then stand the bike up a tad or if need be tighten the corner.

mine

1. realise
2. brake lightly to both
3. new line

yours

1. realise
2. throttle off
3. new line

I figured slowing should come before picking the new line, at least this way if you don't get time to pick a line, you spent the time slowing down, which will get you off easier.

I think however both procedures would result in the same basic effect, the bike would lift more or less evenly if you throttle off too i guess.

much of my first post was poorly written thanks to just waking up....yes at 12:30

[cowboyz]

"How much of a motorcycles braking comes from its front brake (half / 2 thirds / all / etc).
Now, the correct answer when braking close to capacity on a modern bike is all or at least a high ninety-something percent. But the road code correct answer is 2 thirds."

What is the correct answer? How much braking power does the front brake exert? Anyone with real technical expertise know the answer to this age old question?

I would say 90%. In the 40,000km I have done on my current bike I have changed the front brake pads twice (once when I first got it cause they were worn and once at about 30,000 into the piece.) and the rears still look relativly new and have never been changed. Rear brakes are overrated and I dont use them often. I used to adopt the theroy - rear brake to slow - front brake to stop but now I just give up using the rear brake all together.

I agree. Perhaps 90% of my cornering will be slow in - fast out. Not charging in hot. Some sections of roads are so twisty though, that you do not get upright from one corner to the next sometimes. On my SV I am quite comfortable braking deeper into corners in those situations. In fact I find it lots of fun! The plus side is that if I ever find myself going in too fast into any corner, then I am also comfortable scrubbing off extra speed with brakes. It is another option for me.

I get what you are saying. But I dont think it is a good plan to promote braking in a corner to newbies.

Why is a motorcycle often not seen by other road users?

The answer Because most cagers are the kind of fuckwits that don't even throw the slightest glance in the direction of oncoming traffic before manouvering seems oddly absent.
maybe you should be getting a job writing the road test. Seems you might be quite good at it.
As for questions I got wrong:
When riding in groups, it is best to place beginner riders: in the front of the group behind the leader

Purely subjective. It's customary for them to be at the back of the group, with an experienced tail end charlie to be around if anything happens.
agreed. In all the group riding I have done the newbies prefer to be nearer the back - and the fast guys prefer not to be hindered by slower bikes.
If you must slow in a curve, how should you do this: Use both brakes on your motorcycle but only gently

Depends on how much you need to slow down. I'll generally use engine braking if I think I'm going too fast for a corner.
agree again. Are you in my head???
What is one of the most common causes of skidding: Overbraking on one or both wheels
I swore I read this as "OVERTAKING on one or both wheels" he he .....
I answered Wet roads. Yes, one of the more common reasons for 'skidding' on wet roads in overbraking, but it's hard to say which is the predominant factor.

If you get a blowout or puncture on your motorcycle you should: close the throttle and slow down gradually

I answered brake gently using the brake on the wheel that does not have the puncture.

I have never had a blowout. Had a few punctures and it is noticeable but I just throttled off to see what the story was...

[cowboyz]

it's cool how 1 fuckin' can set someone ablaze like that...I'm not angry dude, but i can see how the fuckin came out aggressively.

gave me a small ammount of entertainment for a rainy friday.

anyway
anyway
"if you must" has always meant to me "only if you absolutely have to", and yes I'd condone it if you had to, certainly not for every single corner as a riding style.
pleased we agree on that.
I never said to apply 33% braking to the front and 66% to the rear, but i can see how you think that, what i mean is the front is 2/3 and the rear is 1/3 of your bikes braking ability, if you have both brakes held to the point where the tyre is spinning its slowest without skidding then you're effectively at 100% braking ability, 66% of that is in the front 33% is in the rear, however I agree that a new rider probably wont know this, nor will they know how to brake at 100% effectiveness. What i mean is you should keep the ratio close, if you apply 4% to the front then apply 12% to the rear, but hey i don't have a percentage gauge on my handle bars, nor would I be looking at it while in a pear shaped corner.

*- I've actually gone and got myself all confused now, is it 3/4 in the front 1/4 in the back or 2/3 in the front and 1/3 in the rear? :S....and now google is telling me it's between 60-80%...sigh
the whole percentage thing doesnt mean crap when things are pear shaped and going all wrong. Actually it doesnt mean crap at any other time either. Just as long as the rider knows that the front brake is going to have more of an effect over the bike than the rear.
your step by step program on correct procedure is flawed, you over complicate my system while over simplifying your own.
by design. Little unfair but Im like that.
to put it personally when i go into a corner and find a need to change line I apply my front the lightest touch, the rear a slightly heavier touch (but still light, about as much as if i was dragging the rear over bumps), the bike lifts slightly (if you applied to just 1 then the bike would lift higher) you can then stand the bike up a tad or if need be tighten the corner.

mine

1. realise
2. brake lightly to both
3. new line

yours

1. realise
2. throttle off
3. new line

I figured slowing should come before picking the new line, at least this way if you don't get time to pick a line, you spent the time slowing down, which will get you off easier.
Agreed both methods will result in the same outsome EXCEPT is the brake lightly becomes panic - brake more than lightly. I just think it is more prudent to avoid the temptation to use the brakes.
I think however both procedures would result in the same basic effect, the bike would lift more or less evenly if you throttle off too i guess.

much of my first post was poorly written thanks to just waking up....yes at 12:30

overall I am thinking of the advice given to how a newbie would recieve it. sometimes (alot) what is said as advice can be taken the wrong way and of the 2 options I can see alot less going wrong with my method.

[dipshit]

The 9, for instance, hates braking into corners with a passion. If you are on the front brakes going into a corner then nothing is going to convince the bike to go round a corner. It stands up and all the swinging off it isnt going to make it turn.

On a good twisty road (aka biker heaven) I will near never use the brakes at all. Maybe some light adjustment on the short striaghts or while the bike is upright in the transistion from one corner to the other.

Rear brakes are overrated and I dont use them often. I used to adopt the theroy - rear brake to slow - front brake to stop but now I just give up using the rear brake all together.

So you're not really that proficient with the brakes on your bike at all, are you?

[dipshit]

I can't, but my instructor (who had an 'I' endorsement, and raced motorbikes, so I'd call that quite some expertise) said "99%". Of course, he can probably do stoppies in the wet on command :|.

99% front? Stoppies??

Sorry, but you're instructor was a tosser.

[cowboyz]

So you're not really that proficient with the brakes on your bike at all, are you?

why do you say that? Because I dont use the rear? or because I dont brake into corners?

[dipshit]

why do you say that? Because I dont use the rear? or because I dont brake into corners?

On a twisty section of road you don't like to use the brakes at all.

You don't like to brake deeper into corners.

And you think the rear brake is redundant.

You are clearly having problems with slowing your bike in a controlled manner. The rear brake plays a large part in steadying your bike and how it is going to feel while going deeper into corners under brakes.

[svr]

I think that part of the problem is that some advice applicable to learner riders may not apply to advanced riders.

For advanced riders if you think you are `too hot' into a corner you can just lean it over more right? the other option is to just keep steady gas on but use the rear brake - that really pulls the bike around the corner without all the `stand up' reaction of backing off the gas or worse, using the front brake. Takes some practice but works really well especially on left handers that seem to tighten on you. Someone once told me that motorbikes always handle better when the gas is on, and that is pretty good advice.
Trying to slow down gets more riders in trouble than if they just managed the speed properly.

And that crap question about `crowned right hand bends' is a bit bogus - either the road designer or construction contractor need shooting as all rural corners should have superelevation (positive camber) and not a crown through the corner. Left hand bends are normally more of an issue because they have less forward visibility (`safe stopping distance').