Get ready to hit your kids...

[MSTRS:Me]

Clockwork post #241

I understand that assault is defined as ANY form of physical contact that is non consensual. Indeed, I think just shaking your fist at someone can be treated as assault!


My response post #243

Your definition is wrong. Shaking your fist or for that matter giving someone the bird is not assault. Both of these could be contributing factors for the cause of assault but that’s another story.

Patrick 257

Shaking your fist and saying "I'm going to smack your head in" IS assault if you believe he is going to do just that and it is imminent that it is going to happen.

Patrick has added another factor to the original post and had no part in my original response.


Skyryder 258

The post that I responded too never mentioned anything about a verbal response. Go check.

clockwork 260

Oh puhleeeeaaase!!!

Are you utterly incapable of admitting an error? Is there ANY point in continuing this debate with you?

As soon as you a confronted with an argument that boxes you into a corner you look for the weakest point in the contradictory post, no matter how relevant it is to the argument overall and throw up a smoke screen by attacking that.

Like you did then and like your doing now!


Now who is in error and more to the point can you admit it. If not then you are as guilty as you claim me to be. Such people are known as hypocrites.

Skyryder

And those people who miss a subjective and blindly stumble on making an ass of themselves are known as ... what? Patrick says such fist shaking would be accompanied by something spoken to be considered assault. I would contend that if the shakee truly believed that said fist was about to descend on them, then assault has occurred. It is the perceived intent that is important.

[Patrick]

The post that I responded too never mentioned anything about a verbal response. Go check.

Skyryder

Go check??? Go figure...

Just pointing out how shaking a fist CAN be an assault, just to clarify a point, that sort of thing...

Take it as you like.

Clockwork post #241

I understand that assault is defined as ANY form of physical contact that is non consensual. Indeed, I think just shaking your fist at someone can be treated as assault!


My response post #243

Your definition is wrong. Shaking your fist or for that matter giving someone the bird is not assault. Both of these could be contributing factors for the cause of assault but that’s another story.

Patrick 257

Shaking your fist and saying "I'm going to smack your head in" IS assault if you believe he is going to do just that and it is imminent that it is going to happen.

Patrick has added another factor to the original post and had no part in my original response.

My bad... FFS.....

Another view then, without the spoken word...

Clenches fist, raises it as if to strike but doesn't... without saying a word....

Clearly, under the circumstances, that IS an assault. (Technical, but one all the same. Would one be charged? Depends...)

Assault is not only the physical contact, it is also the attempt at that contact, like raising or shaking a fist COULD be seen as that. Circumstances.

Clockwork wasn't wrong. Neither were you, but hey....

Try to clarify a point.... sheesh.....

Ah feck it........

[Winston001]

Another view then, without the spoken word...

Clenches fist, raises it as if to strike but doesn't... without saying a word....

Clearly, under the circumstances, that IS an assault. (Technical, but one all the same. Would one be charged? Depends...)

Assault is not only the physical contact, it is also the attempt at that contact, like raising or shaking a fist COULD be seen as that. Circumstances.

Agreed, as in domestic violence cases and protection order breaches. Every chance of a prosecution.

[Skyryder]

Go check??? Go figure...

Just pointing out how shaking a fist CAN be an assault, just to clarify a point, that sort of thing...

Take it as you like.



My bad... FFS.....

Another view then, without the spoken word...

Clenches fist, raises it as if to strike but doesn't... without saying a word....

Clearly, under the circumstances, that IS an assault. (Technical, but one all the same. Would one be charged? Depends...)

Assault is not only the physical contact, it is also the attempt at that contact, like raising or shaking a fist COULD be seen as that. Circumstances.

Clockwork wasn't wrong. Neither were you, but hey....

Try to clarify a point.... sheesh.....

Ah feck it........

Post the relevent statute that states as you quote.


Skyryder

[MSTRS:Me]

From here...http://borrows.co.nz/index.php?/arch...59-debate.html
The definition of assault from the Crimes Act is “assault means the act of intentionally applying force to the person of another directly or indirectly or threatening by any act or gesture to apply such force to the person of another if the person making the threat has or causes the other to believe on reasonable grounds that he has present the ability to effect his purpose; and to assault has a corresponding meaning.”

[MSTRS:Me]

Yep. The spoken-to parent will have a record filed away for possible use down the track. CYFS will also be notified...they're actually a shitload worse than the cops/courts.

Not. The Privacy Commissioner would have a coronary if he knew people believed that.

The police are not permitted to keep random records on citizens. Convictions, yes, that's what the Wanganui computer is for. Interviews, accusations, No.

I believe it. All the reports of parents dealt with by the police that did not end in prosecution, ended with the parent(s) being 'cautioned'... What's the point of that if it's not on record?

Have a read towards the bottom of this http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/3149.html It spells out exactly what is done.

[Skyryder]

From here...http://borrows.co.nz/index.php?/arch...59-debate.html
The definition of assault from the Crimes Act is “assault means the act of intentionally applying force to the person of another directly or indirectly or threatening by any act or gesture to apply such force to the person of another if the person making the threat has or causes the other to believe on reasonable grounds that he has present the ability to effect his purpose; and to assault has a corresponding meaning.”

Well I learnt something today. Much appreciated.


Skyryder

[avgas]

what if i beat the kids with a shovel - its clearly the shovels fault

[Patrick]

Assault is not only the physical contact, it is also the attempt at that contact, like raising or shaking a fist COULD be seen as that. Circumstances.

Post the relevent statute that states as you quote.


Skyryder

From here...http://borrows.co.nz/index.php?/arch...59-debate.html
The definition of assault from the Crimes Act is “assault means the act of intentionally applying force to the person of another directly or indirectly or threatening by any act or gesture to apply such force to the person of another if the person making the threat has or causes the other to believe on reasonable grounds that he has present the ability to effect his purpose; and to assault has a corresponding meaning.”

Well I learnt something today. Much appreciated.


Skyryder

MSTRS beat me to it...

My two lines, as above, in post 272 says just that, but in straighter simpler terms, as in like "keep it simple, stupid......"

You could have learnt something on the 28th if you read the post... but oh well...

What do I know from dealing with this sort of thing for 23 years.....

[MSTRS:Me]

MSTRS beat me to it...

My two lines, as above, in post 272 says just that, but in straighter simpler terms, as in like "keep it simple, stupid......"

You could have learnt something on the 28th if you read the post... but oh well...

What do I know from dealing with this sort of thing for 23 years.....

Some people don't want the glass of water you hand them...no, they want the whole well.
And anyway, you're a cop...can't be trusted.

[Patrick]

Some people don't want the glass of water you hand them...no, they want the whole well.
And anyway, you're a cop...can't be trusted.

Fairy snuff....

But the glass might be half full... or is it half empty...??? Its a conspiracy!!!

[MSTRS:Me]

Fairy snuff....

But the glass might be half full... or is it half empty...??? Its a conspiracy!!!

Could be...ask Winnie to investigate

[Winston001]

Have a read towards the bottom of this http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/3149.html It spells out exactly what is done.

Thanks for that. Perhaps we are at cross-purposes because I maintain that there is no computer cross-referenced data-base of every suspected offence and suspected offender investigated by the police. Hell, they'd have records on most of the NZ population.

Your point is that the alleged family violence is entered into a POL400 and therefore there is a record of the parent/s. Yes, agreed. However it is only going to have an impact if also referred to CYPFS. At a lower level the police may look at whether the parents need a bit of help. Apart from that the point is the police need statistics to explain their work and use reporting systems.

Nothing sinister or ominous in that IMHO.

[Ixion]

Thanks for that. Perhaps we are at cross-purposes because I maintain that there is no computer cross-referenced data-base of every suspected offence and suspected offender investigated by the police. Hell, they'd have records on most of the NZ population.

...

They do .

[Winston001]

They do .

And when the revolution comes......you'll think of me kindly......??