Time for a change...

[BarBender]

I've been thinking about getting back to my roots and purchasing a dirt bike...

Born and raised with the Tarawera Forest at my back doorstep, I started on PEs and YZs in the 80's. The move to 'a better life' in Dorks pretty much put an end to dump rides and climbing firebreakers and put me on the road full time. Its been fun...but its not the same as some of you can appreciate.

Also with the young fella getting into competitive mountain biking and making noises about a dirt bike, I have been thinking seriously about doing something he and I can enjoy together.

So Im after a bike. I have no idea what's out there and a bit behind the times. I've been doing a bit of research but keen to get some opinions.

Budget is restricted to about 6-7k...unless I sell the Ape. Chances of that happening are farken zero.

Id be keen for a four stroke if only for ease of maintenence.

Im not one to get into anything for nothing, so a personal goal is to head home and do the Tarawera 100 in 2010. 2009 would be good but I wont be around. And besides - I'll need the practice.

Some come on...tell me something I dont know.

Thanks in advance

[B0000M]

well you have a good idea, and a good budget to deal with for buying a decent 2nd hand bike.

firstly- how big are you?

do you want something super fast or super ridable

do you intend to mx it in the near future or more trail / enduro?

the easy maintenance 4 stroke idea is a myth, apart from old clunkers like XR's and the like, which ill bet now you wont end up with. the modern water cooled 4 stroke more work than a 2 stroke, with more to go wrong, but each to their own. as a beginner or rebeginner they would probably be your best option.

do you have a brand of preference?

do you want electric start / how important is this to you

do you need lights etc / how important is this to you


those questions will be a good starting point for us lot to help you find what you're after

[cheese]

KTM exc 200 - mint bike. or if you want something a bit more tame and a good "all rounder" a KDX. I'd rather have a EXC though.

[oldguy]

Hey bro long time no see, good to see you thinking of getting back into off road bikes, and getting your young fella involved as well,
As Boooom said depends on what type of riding you want to do, as to what bike. Have a word with scott at Mr Motorcycles he has demo bikes,

I would say for trail and riding with the boy, DRZ400 or XR of similar size maybe even a DR350 haha
as for the little fella, how old is he???
have you considered a quad, mike (blackbuell) has a very nice Raptor, could have a go on that.
He's been trying to turn me to the Darkside, that thing has some serious bootie,
The thought has crossed my mind though.

[BarBender]

well you have a good idea, and a good budget to deal with for buying a decent 2nd hand bike.
firstly- how big are you?
do you want something super fast or super ridable
do you intend to mx it in the near future or more trail / enduro?
the easy maintenance 4 stroke idea is a myth, apart from old clunkers like XR's and the like, which ill bet now you wont end up with. the modern water cooled 4 stroke more work than a 2 stroke, with more to go wrong, but each to their own. as a beginner or rebeginner they would probably be your best option.
do you have a brand of preference?
do you want electric start / how important is this to you
do you need lights etc / how important is this to you
those questions will be a good starting point for us lot to help you find what you're after

Thanks B000M - great questions. Here are the replies:
- I'm 5'11. Most of it in the torso meaning my legs are short. Weight is sitting at 120kgs so I'll need some ponies under me.
- Definitely super rideable. Done fast. Got the ticket.
- Enduro/trail. More tree's to hide behind.
- Appreciate the heads up on the 4 stroke myth. Good to know. In saying that I do want something that will be tailored to a beginner/re-beginner
- No brand preference - although a mate sells Yamahas so he might be my first port of call.
- Yes electric start is important. I need to save my legs for picking the bike up
- Lights would be good if only to give the Ape a break from the daily commute but not necessary

KTM exc 200 - mint bike. or if you want something a bit more tame and a good "all rounder" a KDX. I'd rather have a EXC though.

Thanks Cheese. Wouldnt mind something a little bigger than the KDX and the EXC 200 if only because I would feel like a popsicle. I know I have to start somewhere...only I dont want to be changing bikes in 6 months time.

Hey bro long time no see, good to see you thinking of getting back into off road bikes, and getting your young fella involved as well,As Boooom said depends on what type of riding you want to do, as to what bike. Have a word with scott at Mr Motorcycles he has demo bikes,
I would say for trail and riding with the boy, DRZ400 or XR of similar size maybe even a DR350 haha as for the little fella, how old is he???
have you considered a quad, mike (blackbuell) has a very nice Raptor, could have a go on that. He's been trying to turn me to the Darkside, that thing has some serious bootie,
The thought has crossed my mind though.

Hey John - long time alright. Interesting you should mention Raptors...we have rellies in Ahipara and hit the dunes last summer with the young fella getting his jollies on a KFX 400. That did it for him. So a quad is still on the cards. He's 13 and doing great things with the pedals so a motorbike is a certainty for him. You can see it in his eyes...hence why I want to get in early. Cheers for the heads up on the DRZ and Mr Motorcycles. Will have a looksy over the weekend.

[Reckless]

ok so tell us how big and old is the young fella as well. And Do the dollars need to spread over both bikes? My eldest boy is 6'2" and 80kg so we need to know? I'm 5'10 and 98kg with all my gear on and the 200exc is a great bike for what we do, we have one each, and I came off a CR250 which is 50 odd horse similar to a 450. No electric start on the 200exc but easy to kick and they are a shit load lighter to pick up, so you'll still have some legs left. If you want a 2smoker the Cr250 can be made quite good and than there's the 300exc with electric start and all the goodies. But the 200 would be a better woods bike as its a 125 frame with 250ish horsepower and same height as My CR250 was but more agile and more torque. I'm a bit of a 2smoker fan so can't give to much advice on the 4 stroke. Ridden my mates DRZ400 and it seemed big and not as snappy as the 2smokers. Although he is a shit load faster than me on it! Then there's the 300 klx, a biggish bike and not huge power, if you want to enter some races probably not the pick but good for a fun X-country ride while looking out for the kids.
My pick of the 2smokers for you would be the Ktm200 or 300 exc. Maybe the 250 but if your not going to the 300 I'd go for the smaller frame and better power to weight of the 200exc and give the 250 a miss. But it depends a bit if your a fit agile 120kg and want to ride light and fast or you want to sit there and let the bike do the work. Although I would guess 120kg is getting up there for a 200 but at nearly 100kg its got way enough for me. Danger would be a good man to get an opinion off on that point!
And your son? well we need to know how old/big he is first. Is he a 140cc size kids or and adult.
2smokers are much cheaper to maintain and recon if your not buying new but I'll let the 4 smokers guys advise you an there choices.
My opinion for my tastes only, there's plenty who will disagree but each to their own.

PS Try not to sell the road bike you will miss it greatly!

[scott411]

great to see more people getting into off roading with their family, its a great way to spend time with each other,

most of what is said above is pretty good info, although our (mr motorcycles) demo fleet is a bit small at the moment for winter,

to keep something road legal is going to be hard, you have to give up a lot of off road capeability to get road legal, and it becomes a bike that is no good for either job, the only bike really capeable of both is a DRZ400, road legal ones are $2000 dearer than off road spec,

keep some money aside for gear, good gear will save your body in the long run, you tend to fall off dirt bikes alot more, especailly when learning,

[BarBender]

ok so tell us how big and old is the young fella as well. And Do the dollars need to spread over both bikes? My eldest boy is 6'2" and 80kg so we need to know? I'm 5'10 and 98kg with all my gear on and the 200exc is a great bike for what we do, we have one each, and I came off a CR250 which is 50 odd horse similar to a 450. No electric start on the 200exc but easy to kick and they are a shit load lighter to pick up, so you'll still have some legs left. If you want a 2smoker the Cr250 can be made quite good and than there's the 300exc with electric start and all the goodies. But the 200 would be a better woods bike as its a 125 frame with 250ish horsepower and same height as My CR250 was but more agile and more torque. I'm a bit of a 2smoker fan so can't give to much advice on the 4 stroke. Ridden my mates DRZ400 and it seemed big and not as snappy as the 2smokers. Although he is a shit load faster than me on it! Then there's the 300 klx, a biggish bike and not huge power, if you want to enter some races probably not the pick but good for a fun X-country ride while looking out for the kids.
My pick of the 2smokers for you would be the Ktm200 or 300 exc. Maybe the 250 but if your not going to the 300 I'd go for the smaller frame and better power to weight of the 200exc and give the 250 a miss. But it depends a bit if your a fit agile 120kg and want to ride light and fast or you want to sit there and let the bike do the work. Although I would guess 120kg is getting up there for a 200 but at nearly 100kg its got way enough for me. Danger would be a good man to get an opinion off on that point!
And your son? well we need to know how old/big he is first. Is he a 140cc size kids or and adult.
2smokers are much cheaper to maintain and recon if your not buying new but I'll let the 4 smokers guys advise you an there choices.
My opinion for my tastes only, there's plenty who will disagree but each to their own.
PS Try not to sell the road bike you will miss it greatly!

Cheers for that Reckless
Yes the budget extends to 2 bikes and I wont be selling my road bike.
My boy is 13, about 5’9”/60kgs and eats like a horse. So I would say he’s adult size. This presents a dilemna for me because apart from the fang on a quad and pit bike, his motorcycle time is nada. He’s got great skills on a mountain bike but we all know that accounts for little with a motor between his legs. So he’ll be starting from scratch. I would seriously consider tuition for him initially. So keen to get some advice on that and what bike would suit.
I havent considered 2 strokes but based on your comments I’ll include them into my research. I’m fitter than what I was and reasonably agile and I don’t mind the body (and especially the hips and legs) getting a good workout. It compliments what I do for a sport. But would prefer the bike do the work if that makes sense. So I guess Id be looking at something a little bigger than the smaller frame of a 200.

great to see more people getting into off roading with their family, its a great way to spend time with each other,
most of what is said above is pretty good info, although our (mr motorcycles) demo fleet is a bit small at the moment for winter,
to keep something road legal is going to be hard, you have to give up a lot of off road capeability to get road legal, and it becomes a bike that is no good for either job, the only bike really capeable of both is a DRZ400, road legal ones are $2000 dearer than off road spec,
keep some money aside for gear, good gear will save your body in the long run, you tend to fall off dirt bikes alot more, especailly when learning,

Thanks Scott. Yep – good call on the gear and cons with a dual purpose option. My feeling is that we’ll go entirely off road. Just means I’ll need to borrow the father in laws trailer. The DRZ is on my list and I've noticed you guys have some gear packages so will PM you to let you know when I can down down to see you guys.

[B0000M]

if you dont mind a bit of a workout, CR250s can be bought relatively cheap, and will definately give you a bit of a workout.

but im a bit biased, i own one.

as an all rounder i reckon its great, i use mind for trails, enduros, mx, flat track racing, beach racing, play riding, wheelies, you name it.

[CRM]

Cheers for that Reckless
My boy is 13, about 5’9”/60kgs and eats like a horse. So I would say he’s adult size. This presents a dilemna for me because apart from the fang on a quad and pit bike, his motorcycle time is nada. He’s got great skills on a mountain bike but we all know that accounts for little with a motor between his legs. So he’ll be starting from scratch. I would seriously consider tuition for him initially. So keen to get some advice on that and what bike would suit.

Hey my Gas Gas could be good for your son (it's listed in the trading section here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...php?&p=1716796) It's 2 stroke, very light and ideal to get skills on. I'm the same height as him and 20kg heavier so it would go great for him. They're very confidence inspiring because of the trials based motor, weight and reasonable height and learning trials skills is superb training for every other kind of riding.

Theres a 450 four stroke Gas Gas on trademe at the moment too http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=174107186 which I reckon would suit you real good. They're quality machines - not hugely common yet and under-appreciated which explains why they go so cheap - not because there's anything wrong with them.

[Pierce]

if you dont mind a bit of a workout, CR250s can be bought relatively cheap, and will definately give you a bit of a workout.

but im a bit biased, i own one.

as an all rounder i reckon its great, i use mind for trails, enduros, mx, flat track racing, beach racing, play riding, wheelies, you name it.

Yeah i'd have to agree with BOOOM. Maybe look at a CR125 2 stroke for your son. He is pretty light so this should prove more than enough power for him. 2 strokes are much easier to work on yourself and FAR cheaper to do so.
Those CR/RM/KX/YZ etc are more towards to motocross scene BUT you can tweak them to have a lot more usable power for trails etc but still have a nice kick for when you hit those straights.

Either that or buy the two CRF250's I have for sale

[DaveHonda]

Hell, for what its worth I'd go grab a Kawa KLX300. Good all rounder (just bought 1 myself). Few foibles, cheap bits and its no motocrosser but I like the way it goes and hauls ass in the swamps and mudholes. Not too heavy and more of a trailie than a flat out racer (too much like hard work for me). But then, I'm old and tired. Only real drawback is the lack of an electric leg, (thats extra weight...) but its easy to start compared to my last big 4 stroke, (TT600 a loooong way back) and it takes a fair bit of nasty nadgery stuff to stall the bugger on the go. I like 4 strokes, just something about em...

[Reckless]

Yeah i'd have to agree with BOOOM. Maybe look at a CR125 2 stroke for your son. He is pretty light so this should prove more than enough power for him. 2 strokes are much easier to work on yourself and FAR cheaper to do so.
Those CR/RM/KX/YZ etc are more towards to motocross scene BUT you can tweak them to have a lot more usable power for trails etc but still have a nice kick for when you hit those straights.

Either that or buy the two CRF250's I have for sale

I have to disagree a bit here. We had a CR125 for my son and at 18 he found he was having to clutch it in the woods, in the mud and up hills to keep it in the rev range and on Pipe. Its a good MX bike bit I wouldn't buy one again for what we do. It very nearly put him off riding, he actually found my Cr250 a much better bike to ride! This is a kid that was racing in the top 5 in NZ in karting, 42 meetings one year, so no whimp! As a very first bike I'd say no to that as a choice. I bought my younger son (13) a KX85 as his first bike and that little light switch was also to "all on or all off" for a learner so I would recommend getting something he can thrash around and get the best out of. CRf150, KLX140 or CRF150r or a 230 (if he's tall) for a year or even the CRF250 Peirce has!
I have also found the same with my learning curve with the Cr250 you where always ginger on the throttle or it wanted to lift the front or charge into a corner way to fast. It was always wanting to get away from me and I never felt I could just wind it out and really max it. Don't forget B000M is a bloody good, fast, racer & rider. I would guess there is very few here that ride their CR250's constantly at even 3/4 throttle (except for a short spurt) they are bloody fast. Ask Pierce he had this "yeah bloody 250's front wheel just wants to lift too hard haha." to say on the other thread yestrday, same thing I'm getting at. With the step to the 200exc it lacks no power whatsoever but I can really ride it and therefore I'm happier and quicker!
So what we had was a CR125 (18yr old), CR250 (mine) and KX85 (13yr old)now we have moved to 2 x Ktm200exc's and I'll get a KLX140 or a CRF150 for my youngest so he can just go out and enjoy it. Then we'll have bikes we can ride as fast as our abilities can handle for the next couple of years. Just check out how many 200exc's do well in enduros. It would be different if you intend joining a club and racing him from day one though!
Barbender you and your boy might be much better riders than us but I thought I'd take the time to give you the benefit of our experience since starting out over the last two years. The Cr125 was a good bike but was just wrong for the type of riding we do and the CR250 and KX85 where a little to MX based, all or nothing bikes. Although I was very impressed at the build quality of the CR's damn good bikes!
Again just my opinion, not putting the bikes down I've commented on at all, each to his own but barbender seems to be at a similar stage I was a couple of years ago! My main thing would be buy the boy something not to big and powerful that he can really ride and he will enjoy riding much more!
Again just my .02c take it or leave it, I won't be offended!

Jeepers didn't mean to write a bloody book thats another hours charge out lost to bloody Kiwibiker!!

[BarBender]

if you dont mind a bit of a workout, CR250s can be bought relatively cheap, and will definately give you a bit of a workout.
but im a bit biased, i own one.
as an all rounder i reckon its great, i use mind for trails, enduros, mx, flat track racing, beach racing, play riding, wheelies, you name it.

Cheers B0000M.

Hey my Gas Gas could be good for your son (it's listed in the trading section here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...php?&p=1716796) It's 2 stroke, very light and ideal to get skills on. I'm the same height as him and 20kg heavier so it would go great for him. They're very confidence inspiring because of the trials based motor, weight and reasonable height and learning trials skills is superb training for every other kind of riding.
Theres a 450 four stroke Gas Gas on trademe at the moment too http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=174107186 which I reckon would suit you real good. They're quality machines - not hugely common yet and under-appreciated which explains why they go so cheap - not because there's anything wrong with them.

Thanks CRM. Appreciate the heads up on your bike and the link to the 450 but Im looking for something a little bit smaller for the boy. Cheers

Yeah i'd have to agree with BOOOM. Maybe look at a CR125 2 stroke for your son. He is pretty light so this should prove more than enough power for him. 2 strokes are much easier to work on yourself and FAR cheaper to do so.
Those CR/RM/KX/YZ etc are more towards to motocross scene BUT you can tweak them to have a lot more usable power for trails etc but still have a nice kick for when you hit those straights.Either that or buy the two CRF250's I have for sale

LOL Cheers mate.
yes - maintenance wise the 2s seem to be the way to go

Hell, for what its worth I'd go grab a Kawa KLX300. Good all rounder (just bought 1 myself). Few foibles, cheap bits and its no motocrosser but I like the way it goes and hauls ass in the swamps and mudholes. Not too heavy and more of a trailie than a flat out racer (too much like hard work for me). But then, I'm old and tired. Only real drawback is the lack of an electric leg, (thats extra weight...) but its easy to start compared to my last big 4 stroke, (TT600 a loooong way back) and it takes a fair bit of nasty nadgery stuff to stall the bugger on the go. I like 4 strokes, just something about em...

Thanks DH. I was in Mt Eden Motorcycles the other day and saw a KLX. It looked good. I rode a TT500 for a couple of years when I first moved up to Dorks so I know what you’re referring to as you recall single banger experiences. Miss that sound hence the romantic yearning for a four stroke and probably why I ride a twin rather than an IL4. Be keen to hear from some other 4 stroke owners.

I have to disagree a bit here. We had a CR125 for my son and at 18 he found he was having to clutch it in the woods, in the mud and up hills to keep it in the rev range and on Pipe. Its a good MX bike bit I wouldn't buy one again for what we do. It very nearly put him off riding, he actually found my Cr250 a much better bike to ride! This is a kid that was racing in the top 5 in NZ in karting, 42 meetings one year, so no whimp! As a very first bike I'd say no to that as a choice. I bought my younger son (13) a KX85 as his first bike and that little light switch was also to "all on or all off" for a learner so I would recommend getting something he can thrash around and get the best out of. CRf150, KLX140 or CRF150r or a 230 (if he's tall) for a year or even the CRF250 Peirce has!
I have also found the same with my learning curve with the Cr250 you where always ginger on the throttle or it wanted to lift the front or charge into a corner way to fast. It was always wanting to get away from me and I never felt I could just wind it out and really max it. Don't forget B000M is a bloody good, fast, racer & rider. I would guess there is very few here that ride their CR250's constantly at even 3/4 throttle (except for a short spurt) they are bloody fast. Ask Pierce he had this "yeah bloody 250's front wheel just wants to lift too hard haha." to say on the other thread yestrday, same thing I'm getting at. With the step to the 200exc it lacks no power whatsoever but I can really ride it and therefore I'm happier and quicker!
So what we had was a CR125 (18yr old), CR250 (mine) and KX85 (13yr old)now we have moved to 2 x Ktm200exc's and I'll get a KLX140 or a CRF150 for my youngest so he can just go out and enjoy it. Then we'll have bikes we can ride as fast as our abilities can handle for the next couple of years. Just check out how many 200exc's do well in enduros. It would be different if you intend joining a club and racing him from day one though!
Barbender you and your boy might be much better riders than us but I thought I'd take the time to give you the benefit of our experience since starting out over the last two years. The Cr125 was a good bike but was just wrong for the type of riding we do and the CR250 and KX85 where a little to MX based, all or nothing bikes. Although I was very impressed at the build quality of the CR's damn good bikes!
Again just my opinion, not putting the bikes down I've commented on at all, each to his own but barbender seems to be at a similar stage I was a couple of years ago! My main thing would be buy the boy something not to big and powerful that he can really ride and he will enjoy riding much more!
Again just my .02c take it or leave it, I won't be offended!
Jeepers didn't mean to write a bloody book thats another hours charge out lost to bloody Kiwibiker!!

Im sure you can charge the hour to admin - at least that way you’ll be able to leave early for the weekend. Thanks again Reckless. good to get advice from those who've had to make a similar decisions in the past. I know what you mean about ‘buying something not to big and powerful that he (and I) can really ride and enjoy riding much more”. I’m no racer but the best times I have ever had on a bike have been with the throttle pinned. I could be going dead slow – but that’s as fast as the bike could go, given the conditions and my ability. Fun times cancelling out the fear factor. That’s what I want for me and my boy.
You’ve talked me into adding to the list the KTM for me and the KLX and CRF for him.

[nodrog:Me]

Tina's got a 125cc pit bike that she has outgrown, i reckon that would be ideal for you bro