Smearlection...

[Big Dave]

Tell us O party Leader Dave of the Bigness

What will your party deliver?

Hangovers.

[Swoop]

What will the colour of the party uniform be?
The destiny church are claiming "black"...

[Big Dave]

What will the colour of the party uniform be?
The destiny church are claiming "black"...

I'll wrestle them for it.

[Niterider]

Being an ex-South African, where I've lived a life of peace and prosperity thru to chaos, murder, rape and corruption, and seeing this country going the same way FAST, I cannot help but be very attracted to such statements as these:

Libertarianz would immediately pull New Zealand out of the Kyoto Protocol and unshackle business and individuals from government interference. Libertarianz are confident that New Zealanders can make their own choices about how they respond to global warming hysteria.

Auckland Gun Dealer Greg Carvell should be applauded for his actions in defending himself from a machete wielding aggressor in his shop yesterday," says Peter Linton, Libertarianz Firearms Spokesman. "All too often these days, ordinary citizens are portrayed as being the bad guy when they are simply acting in self defence."

[Niterider]

The Family Party seems to have good values and ideas, but taking into account the chaotic state the young kiwi's are in, it'll take at least 2 terms of Libertarian rule to get this country back on track again. Let's vote Leighton Smith!!!

[Hitcher]

Let's vote Leighton Smith!

Give the Opinionated Wanker Party your party vote. Lovely.

[oldrider]

Of the parties that you have mentioned only Anderton and Winstone have stated that they will not form a coalition with the Nats. If you take Winstones credibility or lack of it that only leaves Anderton who will not form a coalition with National. Therefore that leaves all the others for the Nats to come to an agreement with to govern. So I could argue the same point in respect of the Nats.

On the basis that we do not know one way or the other on the state of the polls I do not disagree. But there comes a time when we must decide on the basis of probability of what we read is true or not. The same criteria is applied to what we believe, as against that of what we do not, given the fact that we must use trust or lack of it to come to a decision one way or the other. An example of this is your belief in Liberterainism. Given the fact that there is not one example of a country that has elected a government of this ideology your belief must be one of trust as there are no examples of proof as a government that it is a success. I raise this merley to demonstrate that trust is the foundation of a belief when there is no personal expertise or knowldege of the subject. We all do this one way or another and it is ultimatley how we make decisions. We trust ourselves and our intelligence to make the right ones.

Skyryder

The die is already cast, the only minor party that will go with National is ACT.

The media have begun their program of ridicule for National and ACT, all that remains is the election and the circus of jostling for places around Helen's rectum!

New Zealand is a land very low in selenium, iodine and political thinking, the "MMP election" is simply a shameful farce!

Post election circus will simply concrete in the same old same old, probably even worse than before.

You think not? Watch this space! Sceptical? Cynical? Absolutely, I have seen it all so many times before! John.

[Skyryder]

The die is already cast, the only minor party that will go with National is ACT.

The media have begun their program of ridicule for National and ACT, all that remains is the election and the circus of jostling for places around Helen's rectum!

New Zealand is a land very low in selenium, iodine and political thinking, the "MMP election" is simply a shameful farce!

Post election circus will simply concrete in the same old same old, probably even worse than before.

You think not? Watch this space! Sceptical? Cynical? Absolutely, I have seen it all so many times before! John.

Dunne is on record of going with the Nats if the oppertunity arises. The Maori Party have not ruled out a coalition with the Nats nor have the Greens but it was stated that Labour was their first naturall ally: But given the the Nats environment policy:this would need to be modified to some degree for a Green coalition so it would seem unlikely.

MMP was the preferred system that the majority of kiwis voted for. It is not the perfect system: and it does have problems but having said that OR it produces a parliment that is 'representitive' of the electoral vote. I don't believe that is a sham. Zimbabwe vote was a sham an to suggest that our system is in the same catorgory is just plain old wrong. MMP is better than the old FFP where governments were formed not on the majority of votes but the number of electorates that the party won. Minor parties never got any representation at all as they did not have the resources to win electorates. ACT is a minor party becasue of it's policies are not accepted by the majority of New Zealand Your blaming of the media is an expression that you do not believe that the New Zealand public can not make informed decisions on their own. I hold an entirely different opinion in that it (the public) can see both the ramifications of extreem policies of both the left and the right and that the media plays little in this process. The defining process is how Govt policy affects people lives and they form their political philosophy on this, not as you suggest on media machinations to produce a government one way or the other.


Skyryder

[MisterD]

The Maori Party have not ruled out a coalition with the Nats

IMO that's a serious possibility, and Liarbore obviously think so too, judging by Shane Jones' comments today.

What was the issue that gave birth to the Maori Party? The foreshore and seabed legislation, which National want rid of as well (if for different reasons). would National and the Maori Party be able to cut a deal around that, chucking it back to legal process again? Quite possibly. Could Clark swallow that particular 'dead rat' to bring Sharples or Turia into the cabinet...rearrange these words: face humiliating of loss.

[HDTboy]

Nobody gets my vote!

[Marmoot]

Nobody gets my vote!

I'd rather have election promises, than wasting my power on TV full of politicians trying to point out who's worse.

Can't they say "vote me because I'm good" instead of "vote me because he's bad"

Pathetic bunch of losers....

[oldrider]

Dunne is on record of going with the Nats if the oppertunity arises. The Maori Party have not ruled out a coalition with the Nats nor have the Greens but it was stated that Labour was their first naturall ally: But given the the Nats environment policy:this would need to be modified to some degree for a Green coalition so it would seem unlikely.

MMP was the preferred system that the majority of kiwis voted for. It is not the perfect system: and it does have problems but having said that OR it produces a parliment that is 'representitive' of the electoral vote. I don't believe that is a sham. Zimbabwe vote was a sham an to suggest that our system is in the same catorgory is just plain old wrong. MMP is better than the old FFP where governments were formed not on the majority of votes but the number of electorates that the party won. Minor parties never got any representation at all as they did not have the resources to win electorates. ACT is a minor party becasue of it's policies are not accepted by the majority of New Zealand Your blaming of the media is an expression that you do not believe that the New Zealand public can not make informed decisions on their own. I hold an entirely different opinion in that it (the public) can see both the ramifications of extreem policies of both the left and the right and that the media plays little in this process. The defining process is how Govt policy affects people lives and they form their political philosophy on this, not as you suggest on media machinations to produce a government one way or the other.


Skyryder

STV (single transferable vote I think it's called) was my choice at the time, the pollies swindled the electorate with MMP or nothing.

I voted for MMP rather than nothing. (first past the post remaining)

Do you really think that given a 50/50 Labour National result that any of the minor parties would "actually" tie in with National over Labour as first preference?

They would milk the situation for everything that they could get and then run with Labour, they are all of the same ilk.

The left wing NZ media would convince the public that it was the best deal on offer.

When they get into the polling booth and make their ""tick" the majority in NZ will will vote Labour over National every time, they are conditioned that way.

By natural ratio there are always few leaders and many followers.

There are entrepreneurial leaders who make and create wealth and work.

There are also theoretical leaders that subscribe to some formula or another for political and economical power/control.

Socialism abounds with the latter, usually made up up from, ex ministers of religion, unionists, school teachers, university students/professors "academics" and other dead beats that have never had a real job!

Just take a look at the current crop on offer and come to your own conclusion.

No more discussion from me, just wait and see, I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. Not long to go now! John.

[The Pastor]

hey! what better way to watch the election than at a kb election party! http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...58#post1722058

[Skyryder]

STV (single transferable vote I think it's called) was my choice at the time, the pollies swindled the electorate with MMP or nothing.

I voted for MMP rather than nothing. (first past the post remaining)

Do you really think that given a 50/50 Labour National result that any of the minor parties would "actually" tie in with National over Labour as first preference?

They would milk the situation for everything that they could get and then run with Labour, they are all of the same ilk.

The left wing NZ media would convince the public that it was the best deal on offer.

When they get into the polling booth and make their ""tick" the majority in NZ will will vote Labour over National every time, they are conditioned that way.

By natural ratio there are always few leaders and many followers.

There are entrepreneurial leaders who make and create wealth and work.

There are also theoretical leaders that subscribe to some formula or another for political and economical power/control.

Socialism abounds with the latter, usually made up up from, ex ministers of religion, unionists, school teachers, university students/professors "academics" and other dead beats that have never had a real job!

Just take a look at the current crop on offer and come to your own conclusion.

No more discussion from me, just wait and see, I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. Not long to go now! John.

No OR ‘the polies did not swindle the electorate.

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=m...result#PPP1,M1

To long for most but gives a comprehensive account of MMP issues.

A shorter version from a different site

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/fpp-to-mmp

Wikipedia
The result was in 84.5 per cent favour of replacing FPP, with an overwhelming majority of those favouring a new electoral system voting for MMP. The percentages of the vote cast for the four possible electoral system options offered in the second question were:
• Supplementary Member 5.5%
• Single Transferable Vote 17.5%
• Mixed Member Proportional 70.3%
• Alternative Vote 6.6%



Following Labours victory in 1984 Labour set up a Royal Commission to investigate changes to our electoral system. It completed its report in 1996 with the recommendation to adopt the German system of MMP Most of Labours leaders did not welcome the commissions recommendation. And National was only luke warm to the idea too. There is ample evidence of this for anyone who wants to look.

STV was encouraged by ACT leaning candidates in local body elections with the hope that the this would find favour and become the method of electing Parliament with the so called ‘second’ referendum. The second referendum was a myth propagated by opponents of MMP and is now believed by many as another broken promise by Labour.


The push for STV was undertaken after the Electorate delivered its preferred MMP system. ACT activists were instrumental in propagating this myth so as to push their preferred option of STV. They were partially successful as it is the voting system with the District Health Boards and since it introduction STV has been losing favour. It is slow and cumbersome. There are other problems with it too that I will not go into.

As to whether I think the other minor parties will go with Labour given the 50/50 scenario that you paint I really don’t know. Dunne I would not trust an inch either way, and on this basis I do not know how anyone else could predict that he would go with Labour when he is on record that he could do a deal with National. The only party who has ruled out going with the Nats is Anderton’ Progressives, all others are possible partners with National. Some more than others but all are possible.

The nature of politics is making agreements. If you don’t then someone will and usually at your expense. That is the very substance of the art of real politick and to some extent that of MMP. The object of people standing for Parliament is to be part of the Government. Apart from not breaking the law all else is fair game. Never use to be that way but all changed with the Dancing Cossacks.

It really does sadden me that you still adhere to the belief that kiwi’s are unable to come to their own conclusions of their own free will. I’ve given up hope of turning you back into the fold but I live in hope on the other issue.

The nature of leadership is to lead where the majority will follow. That is the nature of most but not all organizations. I adhere to the principle where a policy be it of a business Corporation, a Local Body Council, a Union, or for that matter a political party where decisions are made by the members. We ‘do’ live in a democracy. Google Corporate Societies and see how many there are. They all are based on the democratic principal. All of them. Democracy is the very foundation of our society and because it does not deliver the kind of society that you want does not mean that it does not exist. Just how much anyone wants to partake in this is their choice and anyone can choose to join any organization that takes their interest; political or other wise.

Academics and other dead beats abound on all side of the political spectrum and not just Labour. Those that enter public life do so for many reasons, some are doubtful but I prefer that most go in too try and make a better society. Whether you or I agree as to the success or failure is another matter but it is the intent of the individual that is important.


Cheers OR stay safe.

Skyryder

[Flatcap]

Academics and other dead beats abound on all side of the political spectrum and not just Labour.

True - however Labour seem to have more than their fair share.

I think by definition you would need to be at least slightly mental to enter politics