F3 rules in one paragraph

[GSVR]

OK its pissing down with rain here...

Tyres - Open
Wheels - Open
Brakes - Open
Frames - Open
Fairings - Open
Suspension -Open
Electrical - Open
Exhaust - Open within Decibel Limitations
Carburation - Open but no turbo or superchargers
Fuel - Pump fuel only
Engines must be from a production roadbike. No competition bike engines (dirt or track). Engine modification free.
- singles - open
- up to 650cc twins or 750cc if air cooled
- 3 or more cylinders 450cc max - (possibly insert an aircooled 600cc limit here)



Note this is just an idea to see how many people see this similar to the way I do. I find the current rules ambiguous and difficult to understand. The rules above would make any bike legal under the current rules still legal.
Can anyone tell me the differences between what I have written and the current rules?

Any comments welcome.

[gav]

So is a 450cc four stroke MX/trail motor not legal then, as must be from production roadbike?

[GSVR]

So is a 450cc four stroke MX/trail motor not legal then, as must be from production roadbike?

How would you interpret it?

[quallman1234]

500cc 2 stroke single limit.

and

250 twin 2 stroke limit.

[Drew]

With regards to the single, I'm pretty sure MX motors are legal. That RS125 thingie was powered by a 450 crosser donk. Thinking about it, that was a 125GP frame, and it ran at the nationals and no-one protested.

[GSVR]

500cc 2 stroke single limit.

and

250 twin 2 stroke limit.

Very few people actually run 250 twostrokes and the current rules have them so highly regulated they aren't a competitive option.

It would be nice just to have an engine capacity limit and allow the use of any engines but then anyone serious with the cash would just go out and buy a late model 250 GP bike!

[FROSTY:Me]

Why not simply go
Carburation - no turbo or superchargers
Fuel - Pump max 98 octane fuel only
engine size
-4 stroke
- singles - open
- up to 650ccmulti valve water cooled twins
750cc air cooled twin valve twins
- 3 or more cylinders 450cc max - (possibly insert an aircooled 600cc limit here)
2 stroke
500cc single
250cc multi cylinder

250 grand prix bikes specifically excluded.

IF it isn't mentioned here then its allowed provided the bike meets all non class specific rules

[GSVR]

With regards to the single, I'm pretty sure MX motors are legal. That RS125 thingie was powered by a 450 crosser donk. Thinking about it, that was a 125GP frame, and it ran at the nationals and no-one protested.

The frame rules or what is considered legal is very poorly understood. You can ask several racers who have been involved in the sport for years and get completely different answers. Anyone new to the sport would only follow by example. ie If they saw one racing at the Nats then it must be OK right?

[GSVR]

Why not simply go
Carburation - no turbo or superchargers
Fuel - Pump max 98 octane fuel only
engine size
-4 stroke
- singles - open
- up to 650ccmulti valve water cooled twins
750cc air cooled twin valve twins
- 3 or more cylinders 450cc max - (possibly insert an aircooled 600cc limit here)
2 stroke
500cc single
250cc multi cylinder

250 grand prix bikes specifically excluded.

IF it isn't mentioned here then its allowed provided the bike meets all non class specific rules

Wow thats an improvement on what I wrote! And like MotoGP the fewer rules you have the harder it is to get it wrong or break the rules.

Edit: what would stop someone putting a 250GP twostroke into a homebuilt frame?

[Cleve]

Edit: what would stop someone putting a 250GP twostroke into a homebuilt frame?

250GP's are excluded. BUT I think that is engines so you could put a 250 2 stroke production engine in a 250 GP frame and running gear...?

[lostinflyz]

my understanding was only gp250 motors are excluded. must be a production 2 stroke motor. and must be a production frame on a 2 stroke 250.

dont think there is anything limiting 4 stroke home built motors for those made of money. hmmm, maybe ill win power ball next week.

the rules read kinda wierd but they look pretty basic till part 5 of the f3 section. then im sure that its talking about 250 2 strokes only.

Is it really only pump 98 allowed??? I know a number of guys on more potent things.

[Drew]

The frame rules or what is considered legal is very poorly understood. You can ask several racers who have been involved in the sport for years and get completely different answers. Anyone new to the sport would only follow by example. ie If they saw one racing at the Nats then it must be OK right?

The Tigcraft bike is the one I was meaning, I just remembered the name.

I've looked in my copy of the rules, and it is quite unclear on a few points, but so is every other class.

[Drew]

Twin cylinder four strokes shall be limited as follows:
a) Up to 500cc, no restrictions apart from fuel as above.
b) Over 500cc, two valves per cylinder, are restricted to 750cc and fuel as above, over 640cc
must not be water-cooled.
c) Over 500cc three or more valves per cylinder, are restricted to 650cc and fuel as above.
Additionally these machines must retain the standard OEMair box, air filter element and
carburettor (with the exception of removable jets or throttle body, including injector).

SV650's dont qualify for F3 now apparently.

[steveyb]

Why exclude 250GP bikes?
Modern well built and well ridden F3 bikes are as fast or faster than most if not all 250GP bikes in NZ, even the newer ones.
It boils down to the riders. The best riders in NZ will not be on 250GP bikes, they will search for bigger fish to fry.
Hence, I feel that allowing 250GP bikes into the F3 class will provide a place for them to run and some competition for the front runners and a bit more scope for the class.
Not sure of the logic behind excluding competition based engines.
The build/cost decision rests with the owner/builder.


One difference with current rules is that 250 2T bikes must maintain the outline of the production bike, fairings not open.
Also, 4T bikes must be of Production-based origin, not open as your suggestion favours.

I feel that F3 being a formula class should be more free to allow more experimentation. It seems to be very much being pushed towards another Production class in NZ. If we are not careful the rule creep will provide nothing but production classes. This would not be the end of the world but would be a shame in my opinion.

Steve

PS: F3 rules were modified in 2006(???) to specifically include the SV and ER engines/bikes to supercde the original 2 cylinder rules.

[Kickaha]

Why exclude 250GP bikes?
Modern well built and well ridden F3 bikes are as fast or faster than most if not all 250GP bikes in NZ, even the newer ones.

The current 250GP bikes aren't going anywhere near as fast as they should be or used to though, in reality a top 250GP bike should be close to the 600 class times