Q: for the police re disclosure

[Tank]

Here is an alternate line of thinking in this for you, Tank. Just an idea ok?

What do you really want for your son? Maybe he will be better served if you let him sink on this one. I know you want to protect him - thats just natural, but are you really helping? I'm not talking about a fine or the law, I'm talking about life.

My 15 y/o young fella L-Plater got a $170 speeding ticket - and I folded my arms and watched him sink and pay for it himself. It hurt him and it hurt me, but it was a critical lesson for him, and I got what I wanted out of it.

So whats really important to you, and what do you want from it?

best regards mate,
Steve

I hear what you are saying - but a few comments.

1 - What he did was stupid - but he actually made a call to drive thinking he was 'ok' - It was stupid and idiotic and wrong - but he honestly thought he was OK - ref Scummys comment above.

2 - Neither he or his friends would condone driving drunk - I know that they always have dedicated sober drivers,and have on occasion been asked to drive them. In the 5 years since he has been drinking (prob more I know) I have NEVER seen him have a single beer if he was going to be driving that day. (he lived at home waaaay to long).

3 - Has he learnt his lesson? - well - hes so remorseful its not funny. He has really taken it to heart. Do I think he would ever do it again? - Hell Id bet my bike he wouldn't.

But - what is he losing?

His career choice - for life - no chance to join the police or become a fire fighter. Thats a biggie.

His NZ Citizenship for another 3 years - that has HUGE personal and relationship issues for him (I select not to give details about this part - but enough to say that the losses to him would be mammoth).

A man doesn't have to lose everything (and with the personal issues - it is close to everything for him) to learn a lesson.

Hell if he got a 5k fine and couldn't drive for 18 months because of this he would be accepting it with a smile on his face as a lesson learnt.

[CookMySock]

A man doesn't have to lose everything (and with the personal issues - it is close to everything for him) to learn a lesson.

Nah you're right there bro. Watching with interest.

Steve

[madbikeboy]

Consequence is a bitch. Small things, like checking a cell phone at the wrong time, and killing a cyclist, a small thing with a huge consequence. Driving drunk, just a bit over the limit, the consequence, two family members, from two separate times (with little apparent remorse).

I'm separating out the actions of your 22 year old son who thought he was okay from the recidivist drunk (my view is that those fuckers should be shot, and when I stage my coup d'etat, that'll be what happens). For your son, immense consequences, for his future career, for his current job, for his relationship, for citizenship. But, two arms, two legs, he's in one piece, and lucky for him, so is everyone else that he didn't hit that night. Perspective.

[Max Preload]

Let's not forget about this little fiasco... and Police stated policy. Note: You only need to be charged, not convicted to have it count against you.

To be quite frank, I think his particular career choices are down the toilet.

[slofox]

A man doesn't have to lose everything (and with the personal issues - it is close to everything for him) to learn a lesson.

Agreed 100%.

[Patrick]

His career choice - for life - no chance to join the police or become a fire fighter. Thats a biggie.

.

When I did a stint in recruiting, we were taking on people with EBA convictions that were older than 5 years ago. I have seen the policy posted just above, which is what was in place back then, but the full circumstances were taken into account. (Age, level, how they were sprung, how they behaved, etc...). But therein lies theproblem - it had to be 5 years old.

He can try for the result that the St Kents girl got, but she too will strike the 5 year barrier, if she bothered to apply, and IF it is still in place.

As for the disclosure, it has been called correctly earlier. There will be no copies on the file at the first appearance, but on request, you will be able to get the breath test result, the EBA check list, the bill of rights form and the advice of a positive result form. There "may" be notebook entries, but the check list is designed to be "notes made at the time" of the procedures done, step by step... this day and age there will not be a procedural stuff up sorry.

Dunno the fireys policy on drink driving, but I would imagine it is the same as Police, as they have to cut them out......... and as a result, will not be sympathetic to the cause?

A personal plea from your son, in person and with emotions running free, is really the best way that I can see a good result, sorry....

[woodybee]

Instead of fighting something that looks like it is correct - meaning that his blood/alcohol exceeds the limit, and at 528, he's well over the limit - why aren't you instead telling your son to get his shit together and not drive drunk. That way people like those who I have lost as a result of moronic people who choose to drink and drive, would be alive and I'd be a happier person.

Red bling accepted gracefully (as I'm sure it's on its way).

There's no red bling for you mate, I entirely agree with you.

Everyone who does wrong should get convicted...................there is no defence for drink driving................Being a cop in the UK for years, I hated drink drivers, I went to so many fatals and it always seemed to be the innocent ones who had no alcohol in their system that died, the drunk drivers seemed beyond all comprehension to walk away unscathed.

Everyone should be taking responsibility for their actions.

Don't get childish just coz things havent gone your way, if your son hadn't drunk he wouldn't be in the position he is in now would he..

If that sounds harsh, mate I don't care, drink drivers didn't give a shit when they were arrested, they thought they were above the law and would try everything to get off it as they would loose so much.....well poor them....

I know what you are trying to get to hear about the Police Procedures, but I totally agree with mad biker boy.......................look at what could have happened, didn''t and thank the lucky stars above, that he didn't drive off the road into a ditch and suffer severe/fatal injury, or cause the death or severe injry of another.

You takes your chance.....you pay the price.......

Woodybee

[Winston001]

But - what is he losing?

His career choice - for life - no chance to join the police or become a fire fighter. That's a biggie.

We're sympathetic Tank but life is tough and not always fair. There are firefighters, police officers, doctors, and lawyers, with convictions. What generally happens is they have to choose another career path for a while to prove their character and then, if they have the qualifications etc, they get accepted.

No help I know, but people with dope convictions can't get into the USA or various other countries, yet many would consider that unfair. Heck, you can't get into Australia if you have certain convictions - ironic eh.

His NZ Citizenship for another 3 years - that has HUGE personal and relationship issues for him (I select not to give details about this part - but enough to say that the losses to him would be mammoth).

Patience, he'll get there.

A man doesn't have to lose everything (and with the personal issues - it is close to everything for him) to learn a lesson.

Hell if he got a 5k fine and couldn't drive for 18 months because of this he would be accepting it with a smile on his face as a lesson learnt.

Same deal for young med/law students. They have to take a step back and wait.

If you can actually prove the consequences you are worried about, there is a small chance the judge might bend the law. Judges can do this - I remember one looking at the press bench and telling them not to write anything down. There is mercy.

However proof of the consequences doesn't mean you or the solicitor just telling the judge - that is far too weak. You'd need someone to give expert evidence. You'd also need evidence as to your son's character. Worth thinking about but you'd have to combine it with a guilty plea pretty quick.

[Genestho]

Tank I believe I had blinged you at some stage for calling the cops on a weaving drink driver, who crashed into a ditch.

Ive read all of this, and itd be quite easy to rant in regards to this post.
Im not going to.

Obviously your young son, has got big plans and thats great, good for him.

I'm not going to peg your son for the same type of drink-driver, with a lifetime of habits and mentality that killed my husband and friends.

Hes just uneducated as are so many that make the mistake of thinking theyre ok to drive

But coming from a practical place - as a parent, the thing about todays society, is that our kids are not expected to take consequences and learn from their actions.

Good on you for supporting your son, but sometimes supporting is about teaching too.

Id like to have had the opportunity for my young sons to learn from their Dad, be supported, taught right from wrong..

But yeah, he was killed by a drunk driver.

Just think about it....


Thats all I have to say Tank, sorry to bust in when your just trying to stand by your son. Cheers

[Tank]

There's no red bling for you mate, I entirely agree with you.

Just to be clear - I didn't red bling him either - he raises a fair point - and I commented on that.

Everyone who does wrong should get convicted...................there is no defence for drink driving................Being a cop in the UK for years, I hated drink drivers, I went to so many fatals and it always seemed to be the innocent ones who had no alcohol in their system that died, the drunk drivers seemed beyond all comprehension to walk away unscathed.

Everyone should be taking responsibility for their actions.

You may or may not be able to tell from my post - but Im a great believer of this also. The 'issue' comes in when the impact on some is greater than others - remember the ban from the Police is for life (according to the recruiting officers he has spoken to). Police officers have been found guilty of Drink driving and are allowed to keep their jobs - yet my son could be perfect in every way for the next 15 years and still not be allowed to join for something that happened way back now. If the recruiting policy was different (like 5 years stand down) then he could take it on the chin.

Don't get childish just coz things havent gone your way, if your son hadn't drunk he wouldn't be in the position he is in now would he..

I dont believe I have been childish anywhere in this thread - hell I take it very seriously.

If that sounds harsh, mate I don't care, drink drivers didn't give a shit when they were arrested, they thought they were above the law and would try everything to get off it as they would loose so much.....well poor them....

Indeed - but as a Police officer you must agree that a person is innocent until found guilty and is entitled to a trial if his lawyer recommends it?


I know what you are trying to get to hear about the Police Procedures, but I totally agree with mad biker boy.......................look at what could have happened, didn''t and thank the lucky stars above, that he didn't drive off the road into a ditch and suffer severe/fatal injury, or cause the death or severe injry of another.

I know this and Im very aware of this - and so is he. This is what feels so heavy on my shoulders at the moment
You takes your chance.....you pay the price.......

Woodybee

We're sympathetic Tank but life is tough and not always fair. There are firefighters, police officers, doctors, and lawyers, with convictions. What generally happens is they have to choose another career path for a while to prove their character and then, if they have the qualifications etc, they get accepted.

Sorry Winston - he have been told that the ban from joining the Police is absolutely for life - no chance even if he proves his character for the next 15 years.

No help I know, but people with dope convictions can't get into the USA or various other countries, yet many would consider that unfair. Heck, you can't get into Australia if you have certain convictions - ironic eh.

Difference is that most charges drop off your record after 10 years - This does not - as mentioned its a life ban from applying.
Patience, he'll get there.



Same deal for young med/law students. They have to take a step back and wait.

If you can actually prove the consequences you are worried about, there is a small chance the judge might bend the law. Judges can do this - I remember one looking at the press bench and telling them not to write anything down. There is mercy.

However proof of the consequences doesn't mean you or the solicitor just telling the judge - that is far too weak. You'd need someone to give expert evidence. You'd also need evidence as to your son's character. Worth thinking about but you'd have to combine it with a guilty plea pretty quick.

We would have done this is there was a chance - but there is no diversion and no discharge without conviction (ie fines and walking but no criminal charge) (we have been told) for EBA - The Judge cannot be lenient even if he wants to be.

Tank I believe I had blinged you at some stage for calling the cops on a weaving drink driver, who crashed into a ditch.

Ive read all of this, and itd be quite easy to rant in regards to this post.
Im not going to.

Obviously your young son, has got big plans and thats great, good for him.

I'm not going to peg your son for the same type of drink-driver, with a lifetime of habits and mentality that killed my husband and friends.

Hes just uneducated as are so many that make the mistake of thinking theyre ok to drive

But coming from a practical place - as a parent, the thing about todays society, is that our kids are not expected to take consequences and learn from their actions.

Good on you for supporting your son, but sometimes supporting is about teaching too.

Id like to have had the opportunity for my young sons to learn from their Dad, be supported, taught right from wrong..

But yeah, he was killed by a drunk driver.

Just think about it....


Thats all I have to say Tank, sorry to bust in when your just trying to stand by your son. Cheers

I replied privatley in a PM - Thanks for your post.

[sidecar bob]

Sorry Tank but I have a lot of experience in the EBA process and prosecution field. A fair few beers, or spirits, need consuming for a male to blow over 500.

Have to agree, Having drunk a bit of piss at police stations & played around with the breath test machines, i can absolutely confirm that even at 400 you know you are becoming well pissed.

[madbikeboy]

Tank, I respect you, and there is no issue there, and I read your post above, thanks for not red blinging me.

There are alternatives for meaningful careers - I couldn't be a police officer, the job would be too challenging for me, and they'd vet me out in a matter of minutes with my less than level-headed approach for drunk drivers and wife beaters. The Army offers a good skills package, not a bad salary if you work into education and cost of living into the equation - plus your son would ge an extended family and discipline. There's also the Navy - for me this would have been a very real career choice, but instead I went to Uni for seven years and got a BA in fine arts (kidding). My grandfather was in during WW2, and into Korea.

There's also the Australian Armed forces as well.

My point is, there are always lots of alternatives available. If this door has swung shut, there will be other opportunities. Get your son to chat to the recruting people (my preference would be Navy), he might be pleasantly surprised what it will do for him career wise, and also in terms of citizenship. It is also a truism, that people from one uniform branch often find it easier to get into another if they have a distinguished career.

[BiK3RChiK]

The time to think about his career choices going down the toilet would have been before getting behind the wheel!

I have no sympathy for drunk drivers... I was 20 years old when hit head-on by a 17 year old drunk driver at 5 O'Clock in the afternoon, after he lost control of the weapon he was driving. He TOTALLY destroyed both vehicles upon impact and very nearly killed himself and severely injured both of us, although as I was in the much bigger vehicle I came off less injured than him. However, I have life-long injuries and suffer with pain almost every waking minute. Most of the time I don't notice now, but at times it can be very severe. This incident has cost me dearly both financially and emotionally ( what with not being able to do the things I enjoy with my family, to the extent I enjoy sometimes, and then there's the cost of chiropractors and osteopaths - even with ACC!).

Anyone who decides to get behind the wheel of a car after even having a 'few' needs their head read! The irony is that his career choices would have shown him first-hand the horrors of drinking and driving...

I tell my kids not even to think about driving after having even one drink. I'd rather pick them up, even if it's 3 O'Clock in the morning than have them get behind the wheel or get into a car with some other driver who has been drinking!

[scumdog]

[COLOR="darkorange"]I The 'issue' comes in when the impact on some is greater than others - remember the ban from the Police is for life (according to the recruiting officers he has spoken to). Police officers have been found guilty of Drink driving and are allowed to keep their jobs - yet my son could be perfect in every way for the next 15 years and still not be allowed to join for something that happened way back now.

Hmmm, curious about this - can anybody name a cop convicted of EBA and who kept their job.

And I'm not counting the one cop who took the vital equipment to a serious crash and got nailed for EBA.

[Indoo]

Hmmm, curious about this - can anybody name a cop convicted of EBA and who kept their job.

And I'm not counting the one cop who took the vital equipment to a serious crash and got nailed for EBA.

Can't think of any serving cop, although there was some wealthy student from a private school who got a discharge without conviction on the grounds it would destroy her lifelong ambition to become a cop (wonder if that was before or after she got caught).

You have to be very pissed to fail a test, if that was his lifelong ambition it obviously wasn't a very important one if he was so willing to risk it.