Crash scenes. What to do.

[dpex]

The very first thing to remember, when arriving at a crash scene is; you will be as freaked out as anyone else there who wasn't involved. You will probably have zero knowledge of what to do for the victims and so, probably, will everybody else. So the first thing to establish is...'Is there anyone here with medical knowledge?'

If the response is zero, then yell, very loudly. 'Then nobody touch anybody!'

Dead or alive? That's the first question after you quell the wannabe doctors.

Death is ugly, but you have to maintain your cool. The simple death-test is the victim's eyes. If they're closed the victim is still alive. If they are open and not moving, lightly touch the pupil with your finger. No response equals dead.

Another good indicator is the stench of shit and piss. When a person dies they void their shit and piss.

Okay, so you establish one is dead. Go to the next. You can't help the other. Perform the same test if the victim's eyes are open. On rare occasions, shock can cause the eyes to stay open. But it's rare.

The next you find has closed eyes. First rule. Gently roll them on their side. Don't worry about spinal damage. Better a live para than choking to death on vomit or other obstructions.

If you can't clearly detect breathing, open the visor. Order someone to smash someone's mirror. Hold a shard near the victims nose and mouth. No frost on the mirror means little or no breathing, but if the eyes are still closed the victim is still alive.

There's a fair chance the live victim will have limbs either missing or severely messed up. Apply tourniquets above major limb bleed points. Any old thing will do. Ripped fabric and a bit of stick works. Tie the fabric in a loose loop around the limb, shove the stick into the loop and start twisting till the blood stops. Warning! You must left the pressure off a tourniquet EVERY three minutes. Just let a little blood flow then tighten again.

Holes in a body. The most serious holes are those near the lungs, so get a box-cutter or pair of scissors, anything! And cut away any clothing around the chest if there's been an obvious intrusion into that area.

If you find hole, stick your finger into it. The hole will naturally suck onto you finger (it feels terrible but remember, you're saving a live, so suck it up) and the blood-flow will diminish dramatically.

If the victim is breathing, and you have stemmed the serious blood-flows, then there's a chance.

Breathing...

The human throat...that part between your chin and the little V of bone at the bottom of your throat AKA, your larynx ....is, arguably, the part most sensitive to blunt-force trauma. So the victim may not have shit stuck in his/her throat, it could be closed due to trauma. In this case you must immediately perform a tracheotomy. You need three things. Guts. A sharp something and a tube...The shell of a ball-point pen. A bit of slim hose off your bike (hydraulic tube is good and don't worry about cleaning it, you won't have time).

Run your finger down the choking soul's throat till you feel the bony V. Shove the sharp thing into the victim's throat. Make a hole big enough to get what ever tube you have at hand. Shove in the tube. The hole will close around the tube. The victim should start breathing. If not, start CPR.

BTW: There are very few sensory nerves around the area you need to dig a hole in the victim's throat, so don't hesitate lest your might think you could add to his/her pain. You won't. He/She won't even feel it.


BTW. You have about three minutes to do all this, so hesitation could render the victim seriously brain-damaged or very dead.

And yes, I have done this, albeit many years ago. It was terrifying then and will be if I have to ever do it again. But the girl lived.

I think the most important attribute to have at any accident scene is the ability to shut down your emotions. Clear, logical thinking saves lives. Hysteria or fear of touching gore, loses them. To save a life you must rise above all those who are wailing, and just get on with it as best as you can.

Take control of all around you by being seen to be in charge. Yell at them with short, positive statements. 'You. Get a knife!' 'You, hold this here!' 'You, press down here!' Your show of confidence will gather in the help of the fearful.

And then you just have to hope you've done the best. But if you can keep your head while all around your are losing theirs, you might just pull off a stroke.

And if you don't? Well. You did your best.

[AllanB]

So its wrong to grab the wallets and get the hell out of there then?

[MadDuck]

So its wrong to grab the wallets and get the hell out of there then?

Waste of time if its bikers. Mostly empty wallets.......

[dpex]

So its wrong to grab the wallets and get the hell out of there then?

If the wallet has stuff it of value, you may as well. But you might like to consider boots, leathers, gold fillings.

[98tls]

Fwiw if you are the one to ring 111 get your shit together before you do,my old lady works at one of the 111 call centers and tells me that a (in the big picture) shitload of time is wasted trying to understand wtf people who have been/are involved/come across etc an accident are saying as they go into hyperland and she cant understand a word there saying,at times she has to be pretty blunt to get them to calm down.

[Murray]

The human throat...that part between your chin and the little V of bone at the bottom of your throat AKA, your larynx ....is, arguably, the part most sensitive to blunt-force trauma. So the victim may not have shit stuck in his/her throat, it could be closed due to trauma. In this case you must immediately perform a tracheotomy. You need three things. Guts. A sharp something and a tube...The shell of a ball-point pen. A bit of slim hose off your bike (hydraulic tube is good and don't worry about cleaning it, you won't have time).

Run your finger down the choking soul's throat till you feel the bony V. Shove the sharp thing into the victim's throat. Make a hole big enough to get what ever tube you have at hand. Shove in the tube. The hole will close around the tube. The victim should start breathing. If not, start CPR.

Some very valid points BUT having just done the advanced first aid courses we were told in no uncertain terms "do not believe what you see or hear about doing a tracheotomy and pens in the throat etc" Mouth to mouth was promoted if breathing trouble, the pushing on the chest should help open passageways and no matter how small a gap there is air will get through.

[Hitcher]

I don't know how useful threads like this are. Not everybody is a qualified paramedic or emergency service operative. All you can do at any accident is what you feel comfortable doing, particularly given that you will probably be experiencing various levels of trauma and anxiety yourself. In such circumstances one's ability to recall words of advice one may have once read will probably be severely diminished.

In many cases people who aren't able to contribute productively should just piss off and keep out of the way.

[motorbyclist]

I don't know how useful threads like this are.

we do all realise this is a piss-take right?



on a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

[MadDuck]

On a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

How do you know they dont?

A few years ago Firefight, Speedie and Draco used to organise nights which were focused more on "biker" accidents. They were much more useful than general first aid courses.

Afterall if I was to (god forbid) come across a bike accident while out riding what the hell use is being able to apply a bandage really going to be?

[Trudes]

we do all realise this is a piss-take right?



on a more serious note - why don't more bikers do first aid courses?

I have to have a current 1st aid cert at all times.......
and have been told not to perform tracheotomies or to move people unless they are obviously in danger or have to be moved to perform chest compressions.
I agree with Hitcher about only being able to do what you can and what you feel comfortable doing, sometimes people can do more harm than good while trying to help and not having any idea what they are doing.
First aid courses are good for giving you some idea, but panic can fuck with your calm and reactions.

[motorbyclist]

How do you know they dont?

ok making an assumption, but i personally know of no bikers who claim to have first aid training and i myself havn't done any for about 3 years now

Afterall if I was to (god forbid) come across a bike accident while out riding what the hell use is being able to apply a bandage really going to be?

first aid courses (the proper ones) include what to do and not do in an emergency

that includes CPR, stemming blood loss, checking for major injury etc etc

on of the ones i did even had a bit about safely removing a bike helmet -which of course should only be done if absolutely neccessary.

ie, not 'just putting on a bandage'...


and yes, i've used that training at least twice, both offroad, once on a very good friend of mine with a very serious neck injury. while it was shit scary i knew what to do and was able to do it... also knew how serious the situation was too.

EDIT: might add i've myself been in the situation of frustration that the fuckwits who nearly killed me have no idea of what to do with me. NO SHIT IT'S WORSE EVERY TIME YOU LOOK AT IT - IT'S CALLED BLEEDING YOU FUCKWIT - luckily help was only a short drive away
edit2: they also gave false details. fuckers.
edit3:no i didn't actually shout that at him. wasn't able to shout, was hard enough to breathe. paramedics were surprised i didn't break any ribs.

I have to have a current 1st aid cert at all times.......
and have been told not to perform tracheotomies or to move people unless they are obviously in danger or have to be moved to perform chest compressions.

oh of course, but poking them in the eye isn't exactly best practice.... or even a method of determining anything

[Pwalo]

I have to have a current 1st aid cert at all times.......
and have been told not to perform tracheotomies or to move people unless they are obviously in danger or have to be moved to perform chest compressions.
I agree with Hitcher about only being able to do what you can and what you feel comfortable doing, sometimes people can do more harm than good while trying to help and not having any idea what they are doing.
First aid courses are good for giving you some idea, but panic can fuck with your calm and reactions.

What she said. I'm also obliged to have a first aid and CPR cert. Just call 111, and do what you can.

[Hitcher]

we do all realise this is a piss-take right?

Do we? And how is it that we know this?

[Murray]

I agree with Hitcher. Being one who takes the piss more often than not I really fail to see what the "piss-take" is. certainly doing a first aid course last month opened my eyes to a lot of rights and wrongs (including the pen in the throat misconception)

[rachprice]

God you would wanna hope so!
NO emergency tracheotomies! Even some qualified doctors would no doubt get the shit beaten out of them for these cowboy antics!
And yes CPR will quite often dislodge whats in there anyway
I dunno about the torniquet thing either who is going to remember to loosen it off while they are freaking out trying to deal to other people in need?
Pressure is the key, if conscious get the person to hold themselves or someone else with you to do it.
With the checking if breathing (because you can waste a lot of time wondering did I see/feel that?) I would just check pulse....carotid is the easiest to feel, if you have no pulse you definitely won be breathing and if you stop breathing your not gonna have a pulse for long.
I dont think all those with their eyes closed are alive either! You dont always die with your eyes open.
I think the thing that got me when we did first aid in class was to recognise when someone has visible brain matter (not in head), a LOT of blood etc (basically almost dead anyway) you deal to the other people who you can save.
Its incredibly brutal but someone who you could have saved might bleed out while your trying to fix someone who was going to die no matter what you did.
Definitely put unconscious people into the recovery position, try and move them with someone else and prop head up if suspect spinal injury but only if you can, I agree better paralysed than dead!