Sensible approach to drugs...

[Headbanger]

Every man, woman or child I have ever known who has taken a drug "hobby" and turned it into a habit has quickly turned into a cunt of a person, seen it happen dozens of times, dozens of drugs, lived amongst it and around it.

And yeah, I see people claim heroin is healthy, Means nothing to me, I've seen the damage done.

Instead of supplementing their habit we would be better off sending them to some remote location to break their habit.

And then shoot the fucks for sport.

If you dance with the devil, He gets to fuck you.

[tommygun]

Instead of supplementing their habit we would be better off sending them to some remote location to break their habit.

Don't we already supplement/support them in this country with methadone?

[candor]

So if "the most detrimental long-term effect of heroin is the addiction itself" and it is nearly impossible for a user to quit that addiction... What valid arguments could there be to criminalise the substance .

That is not the most detrimental long term effect. The reason societies panic over injected heroin is that there is a high risk of sudden death from overdose.
I told someone this once and their non using mates who thought experimenting was amusing, a few weeks later the experimenter who thought they could manage doses being an ultra high IQ guy who was going to be a Dr dropped dead from heroin OD! That was not a nice I told you so. It was the worst kind.

Also it actually is neurotoxic. Insofar as it does permanent damage to the brains natural endorphin system (the chemical system that keeps you a bit bouncy and feeling satisfied). The brain stops making endorphins - sometimes permanently.

The endorphin system is also affected by alcohol use and to a lesser degree cannabis. Some peoples endorphin production can recover - others never does.... giving them good cause to continue use in order just to feel normal.

Heroin prescriptions are for addicts who aren't helped by methadone (synthetic long acting "less punch" heroin that can be taken orally daily rather than needs injected every few hours - ouch) as they don't get a sufficient high... if thats what they seek - rather than just a more even keel. This type are prone to keep polydrugging atop methadone which is ultra risky for fatal overdose.

Prescribed heroin is proved overseas safer than taking prescription methadone and supplementing with other street drugs to get the right kick or the alternate of street opioid heroin (dose unknown, can get contaminated resulting in blood poisoning and expensive).

A heroin prescription would likely only be offered to those failing to reduce life chaos by just taking methadone, still chasing highs and who are not candidates for trying abstinence type recovery again due to the damage to their endorphin system bering so extensive as to almost ensure relapse. As shown by long periods of miserableness when they have kicked or tried 12 step type programs.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Instead of supplementing their habit we would be better off sending them to some remote location to break their habit.

And then shoot the fucks for sport.

If you dance with the devil, He gets to fuck you.

Didn't you call me something like a psycho or something similar a way back?

No mirrors in your house?

[SixPackBack]

Neuro-toxin or not. Longterm effects are here:
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/heroi...rion_faq05.htm

Answer: One of the most detrimental long-term effects of heroin is addiction itself.

Addiction is a chronic, relapsing disease, characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use, and by neurochemical and molecular changes in the brain. Heroin also produces profound degrees of tolerance and physical dependence, which are also powerful motivating factors for compulsive use and abuse.

As with abusers of any addictive drug, heroin abusers gradually spend more and more time and energy obtaining and using the drug. Once they are addicted, the heroin abusers' primary purpose in life becomes seeking and using drugs. The drugs literally change their brains.

Physical dependence develops with higher doses of the drug. With physical dependence, the body adapts to the presence of the drug and withdrawal symptoms occur if use is reduced abruptly. Withdrawal may occur within a few hours after the last time the drug is taken.

and
http://www.articlesbase.com/self-hel...on-143285.html

Long-term effects are far more serious and occur with repeated use. Heroin addicts suffer from collapsed veins, infections of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulitis, liver disease and pulmonary complications. There is also the risk of the sometimes-fatal infection through shared syringes.

Heroin usage becomes addiction when a tolerance to the drug is built up. This means the potential addict will have to increase the dosage to experience the same "rush". Tolerance also means that the body has assimilated the drug and will suffer withdrawal without it. Now the drug is needed not only by the mind craving the high but also the body.


And this one is the best:
http://www.michaelshouse.com/heroin-...of-heroin.html
The social upheaval effect is the most damaging on others around the person. So in that respect providing prescribed Heroin might be a reasonable idea. But if that gets used to hook others, or is onsold on the blackmarket then it is increasing the destruction of life.

Also from what I've noticed druggy's are the most selfish people in existance. Generalisation I know, but that's cause it's generally the case.

Although from reading all this, I think amphetamines are worse in many ways. But heroin is worse in many ways too

Sounds like a text book expert to me!?

Many folk reach the lowest pit of despair using drugs and manage to 'break on through to the other side'........binning the habit and leading full and productive lives, turning them into criminals removes any chance of rehabilitation rendering your arguments moot. The collective reduction of harm to the wider community can only come from the removal of criminal enterprises feeding off the addicts and utilising health services and not the courts to treat what is after all a medical problem. If society and governments are to be taken seriously the subject of alcohol, tobacco [and food?] abuse cannot be considered separately to generic drug abuse-they are essentially the same problem.

[Mikkel]

That is not the most detrimental long term effect. The reason societies panic over injected heroin is that there is a high risk of sudden death from overdose.
I told someone this once and their non using mates who thought experimenting was amusing, a few weeks later the experimenter was dead from heroin OD! That was not a nice I told you so. It was the worst kind.

Honestly, it's not the ODers that cause the most collateral damage to the rest of the society. A sudden death is a shock for friends and family - but I firmly believe the emotional damage racked up over a decade of seeing a loved one in the throes of substance abuse would outweigh that by far. As such, I dare say that ODing is not the issue here.

Nonetheless, the risk of ODing is much larger using uncontrolled street heroin than using a controlled substance.

Also it actually is neurotoxic. Insofar as it does permanent damage to the brains natural endorphin system (the chemical system that keeps you a bit bouncy and feeling satisfied). The brain stops making endorphins - sometimes permanently.

To me that sounds like the description of the effects of meth-amphetamine. Please provide a reference showing that heroin does indeed cause irreversible brain damage.

The endorphin system is also affected by alcohol use and to a lesser degree cannabis. Some peoples endorphin production can recover - others never does.... giving them good cause to continue use in order just to feel normal.

There's a difference between a permanent effect and an effect caused by accumulation of psycho-active substances in your bloodstream over time. (e.g. everyday use of cannabis, severe alcoholism)
An addiction, no matter what to, is not brain damage in and off itself.

[Mikkel]

Every man, woman or child I have ever known who has taken a drug "hobby" and turned it into a habit has quickly turned into a cunt of a person, seen it happen dozens of times, dozens of drugs, lived amongst it and around it.

And yeah, I see people claim heroin is healthy, Means nothing to me, I've seen the damage done.

Instead of supplementing their habit we would be better off sending them to some remote location to break their habit.

And then shoot the fucks for sport.

If you dance with the devil, He gets to fuck you.

Starts out well, then it just turns into the most idiotic thing I've read on here for a long long time...

And for the record, I haven't seen anyone here claiming heroin was ever healthy.

[vtec]

Mate, you did say it was preferable for your children, that's implying that it's not damaging. It makes a mess of people. I agree with headbanger on this one. Candor obviously knows a fair bit about it all aswell, he'll most likely come back with a reference. Maybe you could find us some evidence that the endorphin system isn't affected permanently by Heroin, cause there's always something not quite right with heroin abusers even long after they've quit and moved on. They seem hollow.

[SixPackBack]

Every man, woman or child I have ever known who has taken a drug "hobby" and turned it into a habit has quickly turned into a cunt of a person, seen it happen dozens of times, dozens of drugs, lived amongst it and around it.

And yeah, I see people claim heroin is healthy, Means nothing to me, I've seen the damage done.

Instead of supplementing their habit we would be better off sending them to some remote location to break their habit.

And then shoot the fucks for sport.

If you dance with the devil, He gets to fuck you.

Presumabley alcoholics, tobacco users and the obese deserve to be shot as sport as well............think before you post

[Headbanger]

Didn't you call me something like a psycho or something similar a way back?

No mirrors in your house?

Don't know, don't care.

All the mirrors in my house have an incredibly good looking fat guy staring out,Looks like a cool fucker.

[Crasherfromwayback]

All the mirrors in my house have an incredibly good looking fat guy staring out,Looks like a cool fucker.

Do you live in a fun park?

[Headbanger]

Presumably alcoholics, tobacco users and the obese deserve to be shot as sport as well............think before you post

Cool,make asshole assumptions and attribute them to my post. Quite clearly fat smokers were not being discussed.

[Headbanger]

Do you live in a fun park?

Funky Park.

The funkiest place in funky town.

[SixPackBack]

Cool,make asshole assumptions and attribute them to my post. Quite clearly fat smokers were not being discussed.

Clearly fat smokers are afflicted with the 'addiction gene' and in your world should be shot for sport-your words, not mine!

[Headbanger]

Clearly fat smokers are afflicted with the 'addiction gene' and in your world should be shot for sport-your words, not mine!

Yeah, You follow the same tired pattern every time. Nice one.

Read my prior post directed at you, nothing has since changed, nothing more to add if you can't comprehend it, or if you refuse to as it doesn't suit you.