Drink driving, establishing boundaries

[Mom]

sadly the only time he will reach the news is when he kills someone.

You are so right! I have read him 10 riot acts in the time I have known him. I am a bit of a Mom by nature as well as by name you see

The last was the day he owned to breaching his bail conditions, have not seen him around ( I dont work where he does anymore) but I am picking he is spending yet another Xmas in jail ( he did not want to do that). He is sick man, and no amount of jail time will fix him, he simply needs to give up the drink. Lets hope I never read/hear about him being behind the wheel of a fatal accident, no matter who dies.

I dont have any problems with the compulsory roadside testing that happens. I have a problem with the limits imposed here in NZ. It is too grey, too hard for a drinker to know when they are OK to drive. It should be zero limit. If you drink, no matter how little, you dont drive, full stop. This from an apprentice pisshead too btw.

[candor]

I wonder why wouldn't they. Sweden has virtual zero limit - 0.02.
Loss of mass fines, of ability to check out many comers at checkpoints, of work for socialworkers, specialist DUI lawyers, car sales of some expensive models would decline (worst drink driver I know has a 150g car or 2 with safety specsthat have saved his neck) and of course the liquor and related industry would throw a wobbly.

Jail doesn't deter much, the focus needs to go on seperating culprits from harmful vehicle types. Put the recidivists on life sentences to cycle or use footpower, and make an offence for anyone loaning them a vehicle the same.

Social acceptability as above - he's such a nice guy - continues it. Potential killers aren't nice guys where it counts- wolf in sheep clothing, half the DUI killings are done by recidivists (Bailey, ESR 1998). No 1 form of homicide. It comes down to arseholeness from people with no value on life, and should more often be acknowledged as such (AH's).

Being drunk doesn't diminish responsibility for actions. Big enough to drink - big enough to control oneself by not driving when so. But it won't happen till society places a value on this - people feel more OK about drink driving (often shrugged off) than littering, which due to well drummed in environmental values results in greater stigma and approbation.

Never heard the killer of the 2 girls at Edgeware Rd get much sympathy for his decisionmaking of driving at a crowd being affected by alcohol. Same should apply for decision of getting behind wheel, but everyone goes... oooh I can relate.

Societies attitude is too soft here - in the US a recidivist who kills can face murder 1, on the basis they had to be aware (if previously convicted) that it was not an altogether safe plan to drive impaired. Occasionally hear of concerned friends / rellys who disable vehicles of untrustys . Why not convert the ambulances to contracted drivers like share taxis of permanent or at least long term disqualifieds - if they did it for about 5-10,000 we'd cut drink drive fatalities in half. Our success by world rates is mediocre in this area, why not go for broke.

[spudchucka]

Sadly likely.
Some people never learn, so what's the point of imposing anything, bar removing the physical ability to drive?

Keeping the public safe by denying him the liberty that allows him to continually endanger their innocent lives?

[MSTRS:Me]

Keeping the public safe by denying him the liberty that allows him to continually endanger their innocent lives?

This particular wanker got 2 years jail and 2 years disq. This for his 10TH DIC and 13/14th DWD. Sure, he can't drive while he's inside, but he won't do 2 years, and once out he'll be straight back into it. His history says he will. Being drunk doesn't stop him driving and neither does being disqualified. The only thing that will stop him is being physically unable. What form would you suggest that take?

[imdying]

So what, specifically, are you suggesting?

Apparently drowning is one of the scariest, worst ways to die (how the fuck they figured that out I'll never know...). I vote we hold his head in a bucket of water for 15 minutes.

[4Ducati]

Righto, heres my vote - Candor for Transport Minister, effective ASAP. I'm sure within the forum you'll be able to find some consultants to help ya out a bit if you need it.........

[Genestho]

Agree with you up there Mom - Last sentence (I like a cold beer myself!).
And a few other comments. (Sorry forgot the quote thingy)

Over the weekend I received an email, from a newly elected MP in Parliament, who has said he "greatly admires" what Im upto, he has extended his hand and would like to assist in making a change in this area.

I think its time for a sit down and a coffee with this good bugger in the New Year and see if we can have a wee chat about what can be done.

For the cycnics yea yea'ing - He wouldn't have bothered to contact me if he wasn't serious.
Its just a matter of forming the plan based on studies overseas, and see'ing what can be acheived in the realms of beuracracy (sp?)

This section 65 thing is supposed to be wrapped up in April, maybe we can get some changes, along with reccommendations submitted via my boys inquest, which If Im lucky may be complete one day!

I believe since myself and others in similar circumstances keep pouring the pressure on...we will see action..Them big wheels are creaking for change.

[4Ducati]

Good on ya G.W. - but IMHO - its not just a drink driving thing, as can be seen in this other thread where we've 'met'........


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...30#post1835030

Some of my thoughts as per below C & P..........


I'm gonna put my 2c worth in here too.......(Guzzi Widow, Candor - fully agree with you both!!)

1) Recidivist drink drivers - deal with them properly!!!!! PLEASE!! Absolute utter lowlifes as far as I'm concerned.

2) Put an EXPIRY date on restricted licences - 2yrs from getting your restricted, it expires if you have'nt passed a full test - start again at the beginning!! We have 30 yr old drivers on our roads that have NEVER sat a full licence test, & have been driving on restricted licences for over 10 yrs.

3) STOP telling people how 'safe' their vehicles are - fact is, they are bloody dangerous @ times!! ABS, airbags, stability control & all the other rubbish, is NO substitute for having a good driver making great decisions behind the steering wheel!! Theres a stack of drivers out there that can't even identify 'what' a hazard is, before it embeds itself into their bonnet.

4) Speeding..........I absolutely hate the current revenue & quota driven approach to speeding.........!! So, 100kph is 'safe', yet 101 kph is deemed unsafe........what rubbish!! 101kph is just 'illegal' - 70kph in some 100k areas is dangerous in some conditions. Much like in dry weather in a modern vehicle, an alert driver is perfectly safe doing 140kph through the MacKenzie Basin (Tekapo / Twizel etc) in light traffic conditions.

5) Fatigue / drugs - educate & enforce.

6) Introduce zero blood alcohol limit for all drivers, period!! What we have at the moment is just bullshit IMHO.

7) Driving Fines exceed $5000 - revoke licence till paid off - impound & sell any vehicles that driver is caught driving. Once fines paid off - can then resit licence starting at 'L' stage again.

8) Put some proper driving skills into our drivers.

9) Get rid of the current 'put up a hazard road sign' mentality - driving IS hazardous, yet some drivers can't relate to a hazardous situation if there happens to be no sign up telling them about it / warning them.........

When will things change??? Only when NZ drivers / riders / operators start taking proper & total responsibility for their actions while driving, - when NZ families finally get tired of putting their loved ones in a hole in the ground, because of the actions of a few idiots & oxygen thiefs that we continue to allow to drive on NZ roads.

Interesting thread this one, & something I'm extremely dedicated to. (trust me, I'm being fairly restrained in this post.........!!)

And.........


Thanks Slim - I left one out though..........

10) - Harden up the serious driving offence repercussions - kill some-one in a MVA, & you currently get charged with 'careless use causing death' or 'dangerous driving causing death' - take away the 'vehicle component', & obtain the same result using a differant type of 'weapon', & you're looking at 'murder / manslaughter' charges..........

Am I the only one that struggles to see what the differance is..........???!!! Bearing in mind, both are same result, caused by some-one elses actions.........

If changing laws happens to upset a few of our tree-hugging dope-smoking left-winged pollitically-correct do-gooder queer ba$tards that are nicely closeted in their beauracratic palaces away from the 'REAL' world - I"M ALL FOR IT!!!!!!!

[scumdog]

.


4) Speeding..........I absolutely hate the current revenue & quota driven approach to speeding.........!! So, 100kph is 'safe', yet 101 kph is deemed unsafe........what rubbish!! 101kph is just 'illegal' - 70kph in some 100k areas is dangerous in some conditions. Much like in dry weather in a modern vehicle, an alert driver is perfectly safe doing 140kph through the MacKenzie Basin (Tekapo / Twizel etc) in light traffic conditions.

Sorta like a breath alcohol level of 400 is 'safe' but a level of 410 is deemed 'unsafe'????

Sorry to put that in but apart from that I agree with the rest of your post.

[Genestho]

Good on ya G.W. - but IMHO - its not just a drink driving thing, as can be seen in this other thread where we've 'met'........


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...30#post1835030

Some of my thoughts as per below C & P..........


I'm gonna put my 2c worth in here too.......(Guzzi Widow, Candor - fully agree with you both!!)

1) Recidivist drink drivers - deal with them properly!!!!! PLEASE!! Absolute utter lowlifes as far as I'm concerned.

2) Put an EXPIRY date on restricted licences - 2yrs from getting your restricted, it expires if you have'nt passed a full test - start again at the beginning!! We have 30 yr old drivers on our roads that have NEVER sat a full licence test, & have been driving on restricted licences for over 10 yrs.

3) STOP telling people how 'safe' their vehicles are - fact is, they are bloody dangerous @ times!! ABS, airbags, stability control & all the other rubbish, is NO substitute for having a good driver making great decisions behind the steering wheel!! Theres a stack of drivers out there that can't even identify 'what' a hazard is, before it embeds itself into their bonnet.

4) Speeding..........I absolutely hate the current revenue & quota driven approach to speeding.........!! So, 100kph is 'safe', yet 101 kph is deemed unsafe........what rubbish!! 101kph is just 'illegal' - 70kph in some 100k areas is dangerous in some conditions. Much like in dry weather in a modern vehicle, an alert driver is perfectly safe doing 140kph through the MacKenzie Basin (Tekapo / Twizel etc) in light traffic conditions.

5) Fatigue / drugs - educate & enforce.

6) Introduce zero blood alcohol limit for all drivers, period!! What we have at the moment is just bullshit IMHO.

7) Driving Fines exceed $5000 - revoke licence till paid off - impound & sell any vehicles that driver is caught driving. Once fines paid off - can then resit licence starting at 'L' stage again.

8) Put some proper driving skills into our drivers.

9) Get rid of the current 'put up a hazard road sign' mentality - driving IS hazardous, yet some drivers can't relate to a hazardous situation if there happens to be no sign up telling them about it / warning them.........

When will things change??? Only when NZ drivers / riders / operators start taking proper & total responsibility for their actions while driving, - when NZ families finally get tired of putting their loved ones in a hole in the ground, because of the actions of a few idiots & oxygen thiefs that we continue to allow to drive on NZ roads.

Interesting thread this one, & something I'm extremely dedicated to. (trust me, I'm being fairly restrained in this post.........!!)

And.........


Thanks Slim - I left one out though..........

10) - Harden up the serious driving offence repercussions - kill some-one in a MVA, & you currently get charged with 'careless use causing death' or 'dangerous driving causing death' - take away the 'vehicle component', & obtain the same result using a differant type of 'weapon', & you're looking at 'murder / manslaughter' charges..........

Am I the only one that struggles to see what the differance is..........???!!! Bearing in mind, both are same result, caused by some-one elses actions.........

If changing laws happens to upset a few of our tree-hugging dope-smoking left-winged pollitically-correct do-gooder queer ba$tards that are nicely closeted in their beauracratic palaces away from the 'REAL' world - I"M ALL FOR IT!!!!!!!

lol, yep..I saw your post over there...Thanks.

I agree with your post and some parts of your post is addressed in my research and study areas..but general car safety and general licensing issues are not covered in what I look at.

I kinda figure theres alot of people working on the other issues and I cant stretch myself any further and dont really want to, spread yourself thin and you know eff all, keep focussed and you can learn alot!
AA has some really constructive ideas - have a look throught their policies..They lobby quite a bit on general Road Safety - from what I understand...

[4Ducati]

S.D. - yeah, you know what I'm trying to say though, & I've tried to quantify it by also saying about 100k being too fast at times too.........BTW, roughly how far South are you, if I can ask that??

Funny - LTSA etc spend a bucket load of money on advertising, showing all sorts of differant things over the years, yet the most effective ad that I believe has stuck in my head, is ACC's 'Drive to the conditions'. Simple, to the point, & totally true........

G.W - re AA - personally, I'm in disagreeance there, as my opinion is that AANZ, over the last 10 yrs, has become nothing much more than a mouth-piece for Govt. policies. I remember times in the past, where they were actively protecting rights of NZ motorists - those days are gone IMHO........

[scumdog]

S.D. - yeah, you know what I'm trying to say though, & I've tried to quantify it by also saying about 100k being too fast at times too.........BTW, roughly how far South are you, if I can ask that??
........

A bit below Dunedin....

[McJim]

Lock them up forever? Frontal lobotomy? Remove their hands? Or SD might be onto a winner..

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal labotomy any day.

[MSTRS:Me]

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal labotomy any day.

And so would the dork who sparked this thread....

[98tls]

Jail doesn't deter much, the focus needs to go on seperating culprits from harmful vehicle types. Put the recidivists on life sentences to cycle or use footpower, and make an offence for anyone loaning them a vehicle the same.

Mate you can have a court order making whatever you like an offence but chances are a recidivist drink driver with a skin full of piss wont take one bit of notice,for my money theres 2 issues to be faced with the drink driving thing,1st up what to do with the recidivist? he/she will generally be older and set in his ways so to speak so no amount of talking/bridge programmes time spent with do-gooders is going to help,jail at least keeps them off the road and in some,maybe only a few cases he/she will wake up and realise what a mess they have made of there lives and actually do something about it.The other issue would be what to do to stop young people becoming recidivists,i am not saying i know the answers here but i can confidently say 6 months loss of licence and a few months PD doesnt deter many from driving drunk again.Straight to jail for a minimum of 6 months for a first offence? i dunno but if up to me thats what i would go with first,combined with some real education on the subject whilst there in there not some dottery old do-gooder that they will go and listen to for no other reason than to eat the biscuits that they provide.Who knows its a hard one for sure,made harder by our judges refusal to take it seriously no matter what the law says.