"Driver didn't see bike" x2

[sunhuntin]

my high beam likely looks switched off comapared to DBs, but it has saved me many times.
the route i regularly take has two primary schools literally 400m apart. the traffic during school hours is nuts beyond belief. ive taken to riding that gauntlet on full beam, due to the number of mummies double parked, parked on yellows, and pulling out without looking or indication. since ive started doing that... not a single near miss has happened. i do the same when travelling another very busy road. i have had some near misses, but i put that down to my light being blocked by other traffic, which is why my line is always changing, depending on what im following.

got a photo of what they look like on dip DB?

[sinned]

Doesn't matter how big or bright your light is, some people just DONT LOOK!

A week ago while test riding a Sprint ST I could have returned in in pieces. If I hadn't braked in anticipation I would have hit her. She wasn't looking and didn't look when pulling out of an alley way to turn left. After braking I found the horn and she looked surprised. No matter how bright the lights they aren't going to see you if they don't look.

[Swoop]

Wear a brightly coloured helmet, put some reflective stickers on it for extra night time visibility. Wear coloured gear & better yet, a brightly coloured vest!
All these things add together to break that motion camouflage effect!

To me, that is adding to the effect of concealing a shape. Camouflage patterns are specifically designed to alter the outline of a human body. Bright colours are only one approach to being visable but a larger mass of one colour will alert a viewer due to the movement detected.

Then again, we are referring to a cager being bothered enough to turn their neck and look, in the first place...

[Pascal]

I started riding again on Saturday. And yes, I've spent an inordinate amount of time on the bike because really - why would you get off except to pee and sleep?

One thing I've learned is that even if they see you, even if they make eye contact, they haven't seen you. Or they think it's only a motorcycle, it is much more stable than a car and it can stop on a dime, so I'll just pull out in front of it / across it / make that u-turn. *watches them sip the latte / talk on mobile phone / generally not realize there are other vehicles on the road*

I'm now riding under the assumption that to them I am invisible and that even if they do acknowledge my existence it will be their aim to end said existence for me. So, I'll try to anticipate and compensate for the vacuum they drive in. Bright clothes, headlights on and slowing down when I see them.

Bright lights sound like a good idea - I'll have to upgrade to those just for an additional precaution.

[Squiggles]

Where are you looking...?? If you are looking all over the place, then you will go all over the place!

Your eyes need to be constantly seeking the vanishing point, sweeping back down the road surface then back to the vanishing point again! Eyes UP is the most important part of biking!!

You control your bike! It does what you tell it to

Its more of a wiggle than an across the lane movement, keeps me from sitting in a straight line, and as my position on the road is changing, even slightly, it helps reduce the 'motion camoflague' effect you refer to.

[Jantar]

.... fit a brighter headlight, and use the bitch like a weapon.....

I am glad you live in the other island from me as I don't won't to be within 5 kms of you anytime you are on the road. Using your headlight like that is not only damn irritating, its a danger to yourself and to other road users.

Dip beam only when near other traffic.

[sinned]

It is the drivers who are only looking for big objects and not bikes which are the problem. These drivers can be sitting at and intersection and you can see them glance your way - but they don't see you.

Weaving on approaching an intersection makes drivers look again - I think it works for me. Hard to prove if effective though.

[sinned]

Its more of a wiggle than an across the lane movement, keeps me from sitting in a straight line, and as my position on the road is changing, even slightly, it helps reduce the 'motion camoflague' effect you refer to.

A weave is good and keeps the tyres warm.

[CookMySock]

You can discuss it until the sky turns black, but there is only one thing that you have control over, and that is you - not anyone else, so forget the idea that finger-pointing at cagers is going to contribute to a solution.

It doesn't matter if you hit them at 50k or 150k - only the size of the splatter is different. You must convert their gazing into space from a peripheral non-detect into a detect, and then from there into a concious gaze and decision not to move, and the only way to do that is look big and intimidating.

I think super-bright headlights make vehicles look as if they are closing much more rapidly, since the light goes from non-visible to exceedingly bright the moment you come into line of sight - even if you are a kilometer away, and this seems to agree with the motion camouflage theory(?).

Only once has a car pulled out in front of me. It was on a corner and I was heading straight at their drivers door. They looked right and I wasn't there, looked left and pulled out, and looked right again and there I was. I was doing 120k about 100 meters out, HIDs on full, looking straight at the driver and they literally nearly jumped out their passenger window in fright! I am sure they thought they were about to die. I must have looked like a freight train to them. He just shot straight over the road into the gravel on the other size, tailer and all!

I wonder if a dipped HID might be better than a fullbeam one, as firstly its legal, and secondly its height can be set to it will flicker and draw a lot of attention.

Steve

[CookMySock]

I am glad you live in the other island from me as I don't won't to be within 5 kms of you anytime you are on the road. Using your headlight like that is not only damn irritating, its a danger to yourself and to other road users.

Whatever mate. Bikers insulting and trolling other bikers in threads like this do no person any good, so put a finger in it.

Quite frankly, if you were following behind my bright lights - there would be no safer place for you.

Steve

[MyGSXF:Me]

To me, that is adding to the effect of concealing a shape. Camouflage patterns are specifically designed to alter the outline of a human body. Bright colours are only one approach to being visable but a larger mass of one colour will alert a viewer due to the movement detected. Then again, we are referring to a cager being bothered enough to turn their neck and look, in the first place...

I am not talking about camouflage patters.. I am talking about being as bright & bold as possible.. to DRAW the drivers eyes it the biker.. If ya think about it.. what do we all love to wear.. BLACK.. black helmet, black clothes, black bikes.. (by far the sexiest... ) & what does that do.. it blends us in WONDERFULY with the environment we are traveling in.. dark trees, dark houses, shadows etcetc.. bingo.. thus we BLEND & are very hard too see!

As for a cager not bothering to turn & look in the first place.. See Pascals post & my reply below..

One thing I've learned is that even if they see you, even if they make eye contact, they haven't seen you. I'm now riding under the assumption that to them I am invisible and that even if they do acknowledge my existence. So, I'll try to anticipate and compensate for the vacuum they drive in. Bright clothes, headlights on and slowing down when I see them.

Now THAT m'dear.. is GOOD advanced rider training skills! It's ALL about 3 things.. OBSERVE, ANTICIPATE, RESPOND! (or..SEE, THINK, DO!! )

Constantly scanning, observing the environment around you & other road users.. anticipating what could possibly happen at any time, & being prepared with the right skills (that you go out & practice!!) to be able to appropriately respond with an effective action!

Its more of a wiggle than an across the lane movement, keeps me from sitting in a straight line, and as my position on the road is changing, even slightly, it helps reduce the 'motion camoflague' effect you refer to.

lols.. yep.. that's the 3rd part of the effect. Alerting the driver the the bikes presence much earlier along the collision line. A smooth gentle single zig-zag motion at any point along the line, created a rapid edge movement against the background & destroyed the motion camouflage.

I am glad you live in the other island from me as I don't won't to be within 5 kms of you anytime you are on the road. Using your headlight like that is not only damn irritating, its a danger to yourself and to other road users. Dip beam only when near other traffic.

x2

[Goblin]

You can discuss it until the sky turns black,

And THAT is the ONLY time you need your light on high beam...when there's no other vehicles in front of you.

... the only way to do that is look big and intimidating.

Best way to do that is to wear black.

I think super-bright headlights make vehicles look as if they are closing much more rapidly, since the light goes from non-visible to exceedingly bright the moment you come into line of sight - even if you are a kilometer away, and this seems to agree with the motion camouflage theory(?).

Gawd you're a knob! Blinding people with your exceedingly bright light will not help you when the dopey drivers pull out in front of you without even looking.

I wonder if a dipped HID might be better than a fullbeam one, as firstly its legal, and secondly its height can be set to it will flicker and draw a lot of attention.

Steve

Since when have you ever cared what's legal? You spout off on here giving newbies the worst possible advice as if you're some kind of riding legend.

Take this guys advice with a big bag of salt!

[MyGSXF:Me]

It is the drivers who are only looking for big objects and not bikes which are the problem. These drivers can be sitting at and intersection and you can see them glance your way - but they don't see you.
Weaving on approaching an intersection makes drivers look again - I think it works for me. Hard to prove if effective though.

Exactly.. motion camouflage!

A gentle weave at an intersection is a great preventive action!

Rest assured it IS proven effective! The papers that I wrote my post out of.. come from scientific studies! Motion camouflage was 1st described in 1995 (Srinivasan & Davey), that hoverflies & dragonflies use the technique in aerial battles. Now missile engineers are replicating the strategy to make their ballistics harder to dodge. But it was advanced motorcycle instructor Duncan MacKillop who made the link to SMIDSY (sorry mate I didn't see you) accidents. According to police crash data, in nearly all SMIDSY accidents the bike has hit the car somewhere between the A-pillar & the front wheel. This suggests the the point at which we "loom" into view is very close to the junction of the car!

Again it comes down to us as riders.. OBSERVE.. ANTICIPATE.. RESPOND!!

[pritch]

If hi vis clobber makes you feel good, by all means wear it. So long as you don't rely on it because in reality it probably doesn't help much.

Somebody hereabout posted some more recent information that found that once the drivers make their decision to move they ignore subsequent visual cues. This explained how it is that you see drivers looking directly at you yet they still say "I didn't see you".

If somebody reading this knows ehere that information can be found I'd be interested to read it again...

[Jantar]

... in nearly all SMIDSY accidents the bike has hit the car somewhere between the A-pillar & the front wheel. This suggests the the point at which we "loom" into view is very close to the junction of the car! ...

This is also in line with the natural blind spot that the human animal has. Like all animals we respond to perceived threats, and that is generally from something larger. So car drivers are sub-conciously looking for larger cars, trucks and busses, or objects that are moving towards them quickly.

Double headlights on dip beam are visible to the subconcious, and the looming effect that MyGSFX mentioned earlier can be apparent, as the lights tend to get further apart as they get closer. If your lights are on high beam, the looming effect is masked, and the subconcious brain has no way of telling how far away the bike is, nor how fast it is travelling. It is simply treated as an irritant, and not as a threat.

Maybe some riders do feel safer with their lights on high, but in fact it is more dangerous, and I don't want to be anywhere near them.